Yellow trail at the "pile of logs" closed off
- Thread starter jumpa
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jumpa
Well-Known Member
It's ridable , but not exactly how I'd like it to stay for long term use. It's still needs some benching in spots and a few berms to improve flow on the switch back down. As it sits it's more fun on the climb
jumpa
Well-Known Member
a lot of people feel the same way, working on it
in the mean time feel free to practice your endo turns
Yep, as @jumpa said, trail is open so we can get it burned in, but needs some tweaking in certain sections.... a berm or two, some benching, etc. Overall, though, it's WAAAAY better than the eroded, fall-line, eroded highway of a trail it replaces!
Someone closed the old section down without our knowledge, but we had planned to do that anyway in the fall, so it's all good. Next trail date is most likely June 18, so please join us if you can to help us shape it. I'm already working on ideas for a new trail, but have to go through the approval process with MCPC first.
Someone closed the old section down without our knowledge, but we had planned to do that anyway in the fall, so it's all good. Next trail date is most likely June 18, so please join us if you can to help us shape it. I'm already working on ideas for a new trail, but have to go through the approval process with MCPC first.
it was a waterfall - thus eroded, and rooty - only getting worse, which jeopardizes the trees, and isn't any fun to ride.
(any fall line trail will get this erosion, and they are avoided now)
the new trail, with its proper cut into the hillside, will be easier to maintain, and last forever. (its also easier to climb !!!)
GJ11
Member
I've been riding in there for the better part of the last 10 years and that section of trail has largely remained unchanged. Who made the assessment that concluded it needed to be closed?
I disagree with your characterization that it "isn't any fun to ride."
jumpa
Well-Known Member
fall line trails are not maintainable. If you ever see a fast DH section with a rut forming down the center over time that's water naturally following the path of less resistance (down the fall line of a mountain on a cut trail). They also lack visual interest, variety and don't really offer much to a rider short of point and shoot (we still have some sections like that though). if it makes you feel any better about the trail closing though, if we want new trails in that park, i've been told its easier to get approval to cut trails for reroutes
GJ11
Member
fall line trails are not maintainable. If you ever see a fast DH section with a rut forming down the center over time that's water naturally following the path of less resistance (down the fall line of a mountain on a cut trail). They also lack visual interest, variety and don't really offer much to a rider short of point and shoot (we still have some sections like that though). if it makes you feel any better about the trail closing though, if we want new trails in that park, i've been told its easier to get approval to cut trails for reroutes
WADR I believe your description of the trail does not comport with reality. I have seen/ridden unmaintainable 'fall line' trails and this isn't one of them. Can you present any evidence, anecdotal or otherwise, where Morris Co Parks or JORBA had to spend resources, above and beyond what is normally required, to maintain this section of trail in ridable condition?
I've ridden through there after hurricanes, winter storms, and epic rain. The trail condition never substantially changed and required no extra attention, to the best of my knowledge, for the better part of the last decade. At a minimum, if you didn't like to ride it, you could spend your time riding the alternate trail that was developed while keeping this section open. Many of us are happy with plain old 'point and shoot' riding.
I find the arguments you put forth for closing this section to be thin at best.
well, i'll agree there is some degree of fun to it. its just not what i go to LM for. I like the dh from the ridge either to the back lot or down to the low bridge with the stone work - or the one from the top of the fireroad to the backlot.... i'll even take the last dh to the lake, which is sidehill...
that dh had a crappy turn at the end too.
how about this, the trails are multi-use, and people hiking are at risk of injury on trails like that. Injury means lawsuits - just cause it hasn't happened, doesn't mean it won't.
the trail was getting worse, as indicated by the amount of rocks that were showing up at the bottom. riding skill has nothing to do with it, cost of maintenance has nothing to
do with - it will get deeper, with more exposed roots. then someone will come in the middle of the night, and remove the roots (this is not as absurd as it sounds)
Also as noted in the OP - JORBA did not close the trail, and it was a surprise when @jumpa arrived and found it shut.
you could just accept that a team of people, working to make the best decision for the park and its users, has done their due diligence in re-routing 100 yards of trail.
Once again, arguing about this in the totally wrong place. Contact Morris County Parks if you don't agree with any part of their approved trail plan for Lewis Morris Park. The trail is text book fall line trail and I will happily head out there with you and a clinometer to show you that it is considerably steeper than the maximum sustainable grade for that park. I would also point out that this specific trail was in fact rerouted in the past and I remember the day this new alignment was opened and have witnessed the erosion over the last 10 or so years. The folks that cut the new section are NOT the same folks that blocked off the old trail. Nobody seems to know who did that (county parks doesn't know either) and in a perfect world, the new trail would have a few more trail work sessions before closing the old route. But please, feel free to attend any of the scheduled trail maintenance dates to give your input and be a part of the solution.
GJ11
Member
Who is the contact? -- (although based on your comment at the end of your post, I'm not sure I'd need one) --When was the comment period or public meeting to provide input? Initial posts in this thread indicated others had knowledge that this section was going to be closed and re-routed. When was notice given?
If true, Morris Co Parks should have the survey data to prove it. My Garmin, while not completely accurate, shows multiple runs throughout the park with a similar grade (we're talking 8-11%, nothing drastic). Are those sections going to be re-routed as well? Am I the only one that finds it peculiar that this trail existed for over a decade and then suddenly needed to be closed?
Again, I ask for proof of this assertion. Specifically, the use of assets above and beyond what's normally required to maintain other representative sections of this park. You have pointed me to the Morris Co Parks dept, which I will happily pursue. However, if you're going to continue to make these assertions, I'll continue to ask you to provide proof to back up your allegations. Otherwise, if the Parks Dept has this data, I'll take it up with them. If I was a betting man, I'd be betting they don't have the data and wouldn't give 2 squirts about it.
To be clear, I have no problem with the new trail. To each their own. However, you indicate the original trail wasn't officially closed? Does that mean there's a rouge group of trail marauders out there who are attempting to close perfectly ridable trails? What other sections are going to be closed by these marauders? The sentiment on this board seems to favor the closure but, so far, it has only been substantiated through hyperbole.
I'd be happy to do that but to what end? If sections of trail are going to be opened and closed without any input, or worse yet, with a wink and a nod, then what purpose do these sessions serve other than to further an agenda which is not in the best interest of the group?
GJ11
Member
Possibly the most absurd answer to any post -- lookout everyone, lawsuit!!!
Taking your argument to its logical conclusion, why not close the whole park?
GJ11
Member
Nobody's arguing over the quality, or lack thereof, of the new trail.
As with all government, local, county and state and pursuant to the open public meeting act, notice of all meetings is voted upon and a resolution passed typically the first scheduled meeting of the year. Notice of meetings are published in the Daily Record and The Star Ledger.
http://37.60.235.13/~morrispa/assets/images/PDFs/Commission/open_public_meeting_act_2015.pdf
Right on their website, you can find their public meeting schedule: http://morrisparks.net/index.php/commission/public-meetings/
I was not present at any of these discussions but an agenda was published, a presentation made, a motion to approve and finally a formal resolution. Nothing in the county parks just "happens" and there are far more trail users than mountain bikers. I get that you want to go down hills fast but there are many other concerns and groups that voice their concerns. If you want to get informed, then start attending their meetings and wait for them to open the floor for public comment.
Again, it's not their job or our job to prove anything to you. It's your job to attend the meetings, listen to the expert testimony and step up when its your turn to voice your opinion. One of the Morris County chapter folks may be able to provide some more information but there are in fact a number of identified areas throughout the park that need remediation, reroutes, etc. Do not trust your Garmin! Go pick up a clinometer and learn how to identify the maximum sustainable grade for the area. Eyeballing it doesn't work here and certainly isn't going to work when presenting to the county. When you consider how long it takes to complete a study, build a trail plan, present and approve the plan and finally find funding or volunteers to execute the plan, it can take an incredibly long time.
Again, I don't need to provide you proof of anything as I'm not the individual who completed the trail plan for the park or presented to the county. I do agree that this trail is a fall line trail and should be remediated in some manner. But, the answers you seek are easily obtainable is you start putting in the time and attending the monthly meetings. No one is going to search you out, you need to do the due diligence here.
No reading into it, it's just as I said. Some person(s) moved trees and branches across the old trail. The county, JORBA and the regular weekly riders don't know who did this.
There is always input if you are willing to put the time in. Most of the time people like to post to internet forums but rarely ever show up in person at these meetings. Case and point, I have attended 96 Open Space Committee meetings in my town and over those eight years, ONE person came to make a statement. I hear complaints all the time but really most people are just too lazy to do anything that involves a little work.
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GJ11
Member
This paragraph says it all. I appreciate what you posted above but it's all for naught based on your comments here.
After re-reading your other post, if the County Parks and JORBA had nothing to do with 'officially' closing the existing trail, then some rouge group did without consent of the trail maintenance volunteers or the County. Are you prepared to denounce the actions of this rouge group here? If I go into LM tomorrow and clear the trail, are you prepared to back me up? Because everything you've said up till now has supported my position. Unless I've misunderstood you?
If not, perhaps, the County truly doesn't care and the trail maintenance volunteers are in agreement that a legitimate trail can be illegitimately shut down based on the preference of a few. If that's what you stand for, as a representative of JORBA, no matter how altruistic your mission, I'm not so sure I would want to be associated.
If I was a betting man, and I'm not, I would bet that many of the same 'volunteers' creating the new trail are the same ones closing legitimate trails without authorization based on their own agenda.
Flame away.
i am not trying to change your mind - i realize that every decision made will have detractors. i accept the fact that you don't agree -
Negligence is actionable, so not unreasonable at all.
parks are insured, and are prepared to defend against meritless claims.
What are your reasons that it should have been kept open? Or both open?
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