Mathers
Well-Known Member
Everyone wants the quick buck and they know some lawyer will get it for them.
Who remembers when...
- Thread starter Dajerseyrat
- Start date
Neither, slightly loaded question though as the perception of properly maintained or built is a complete wild card in itself.
How so? Well organized businesses, groups or orgs will have a risk management plan which addresses build standards and requires landowner buy-in on the trail design. Land managers are advised by risk management pro's to hire/partner with such groups. Illegal building can be considered criminal trespass and/or mischief. Completely different torts, while still exposing the builder to liability for injury to others.
OP - Sorry for contributing to the derail, i'll go drag out some old junk from the garage to get back on track =p
BCurry
Well-Known Member
So much purple, neon and going over the bars, good times!
Johnny Utah
Well-Known Member
This thread took a poop from awesomeness....my dorm room freshmen year. I mowed a ton of lawns and cleaned 4.5 million flounder to buy my rigs as a kid. Karpiel Armageddon and Azonic DS-1
one piece crank
Well-Known Member
Green Doublewides baby!
It was in reference to unapproved maintenance. Curious though, many "illegal" features / maintenance have been in parks for years. What is the statue of limitations on someone getting hurt on an illegal feature? Also, if the park does nothing to mitigate said features, what happens then?
Xler8
Well-Known Member
Sorta kinda, I guess... I remember when I rode a full rigid Schwinn High Sierra..
..on pretty much all the same trails that are talked about today. And the thing is, the trails haven’t changed all that much from then till now, however the bikes are vastly different.
The one thing that’s rarely discussed here are the trails themselves as far as building, growing, adding... So to be able to breach the subject is welcome. Maintaining seems to be better for sure from back in the day, no doubt. What good is all that new fandango suspension and rims and brakes and tires and on and on if the trails haven’t really seemed to keep up. At least not around here...
One person seems to be interested in keeping the discussion going
I’m curious how exactly a feature would be defined in this context.
Monkey Soup
Angry Wanker
I think the trails have completely changed with the bikes, you can see it up north where there's elevation to play with, go someplace like VT or other parts of New England and its undeniable.
I think the trails have completely changed with the bikes, you can see it up north where there's elevation to play with, go someplace like VT or other parts of New England and its undeniable. As bikes have gotten more capable, there is more of a priority now on descending. Up in New England where the climbs are long, they try to make them as easy as possible, so that you can keep the gun powder dry for the long, techy, high-speed, descents. I see a lot of that happening here as well. Many of the climbs have been made easier, slowly, over time, to get you to the longer (relatively speaking for NJ) descents. We try to do the best with the elevation that we have.
On the flip side, while a lot of newer trails have been made in a more sustainable fashion, trying to capture some "flow" in NJ has resulted in what some may deem the "dumbing" down of trails. On the whole, I think much of the work has resulted in more sustainable trails that achieve some of that need for speed, but there are some spots where the good-old gnar has been neutered. I guess that the loss of some of those spots is the price that must be paid for the general improvement of a venue. Regardless of where you stand on this, the counterpoint will be guys going out and building features to recapture whats been lost. I don't know, while its "illegal", I need a few of those sphincter-clenching moments on every ride, so keep it like Fight Club.
Sorta kinda, I guess... I remember when I rode a full rigid Schwinn High Sierra..
View attachment 81975
..on pretty much all the same trails that are talked about today. And the thing is, the trails haven’t changed all that much from then till now, however the bikes are vastly different.
The one thing that’s rarely discussed here are the trails themselves as far as building, growing, adding... So to be able to breach the subject is welcome. Maintaining seems to be better for sure from back in the day, no doubt. What good is all that new fandango suspension and rims and brakes and tires and on and on if the trails haven’t really seemed to keep up. At least not around here...
One person seems to be interested in keeping the discussion going
I’m curious how exactly a feature would be defined in this context.
I think the trails have completely changed with the bikes, you can see it up north where there's elevation to play with, go someplace like VT or other parts of New England and its undeniable. As bikes have gotten more capable, there is more of a priority now on descending. Up in New England where the climbs are long, they try to make them as easy as possible, so that you can keep the gun powder dry for the long, techy, high-speed, descents. I see a lot of that happening here as well. Many of the climbs have been made easier, slowly, over time, to get you to the longer (relatively speaking for NJ) descents. We try to do the best with the elevation that we have.
On the flip side, while a lot of newer trails have been made in a more sustainable fashion, trying to capture some "flow" in NJ has resulted in what some may deem the "dumbing" down of trails. On the whole, I think much of the work has resulted in more sustainable trails that achieve some of that need for speed, but there are some spots where the good-old gnar has been neutered. I guess that the loss of some of those spots is the price that must be paid for the general improvement of a venue. Regardless of where you stand on this, the counterpoint will be guys going out and building features to recapture whats been lost. I don't know, while its "illegal", I need a few of those sphincter-clenching moments on every ride, so keep it like Fight Club.
Dajerseyrat
Well-Known Member
Does anyone feel that the advancement of bike technology has attracted riders that back in the day wouldn't have tried the trails we have been discussing? And do you feel it allows certain riders to participate in rides that are way above their skill level? From personal experience it is way easier to whip around the trails of Hartshorn on my fancy full squish, top end, plus tire Santa Cruz than it was 20 years ago on my rigid tail Cannondale F400 with razor thin tires..I feel at times I can be in way over my head physically, but the bike allows me to do it..This has plusses and minuses obviously..
A Potted Plant
Honorary Sod
As an armchair lawyer I'm armchair offended
Monkey Soup
Angry Wanker
Speaking for my self, no. Like rain tires on a motorcycle, better bikes and technology just allow me crash at a higher speed than before. And from personal observation, all the guys I know who bought fancy expensive high-tech bikes ride exactly like they did before. The fast just got faster, the slow and cautious still slow and caustious.
Xler8
Well-Known Member
If we had anything like they do in VT or the New England areas, then it would be a mood point because what they have and what we have is substantially different, IMO. Not just from an elevation perspective.
One of the things that drew me back to the MTB scene was how much the bikes have changed. There’s no doubt that you are able to hold a line better, turn better, climb better, descend better, stop better with today’s steeds compared to what was out in the market back in the day. I can’t say I shied away from any trails on my Schwinn around here, but I will say that I can ride them with more confidence now on the newer bikes. I’ve yet to find any trail(s) around here that are that out of reach where they absolutely “need” a newer bike. You can tackle any trail around here on a hardtail or a rigid. May not be as confidence inspiring, but totally doable.
One of the things that drew me back to the MTB scene was how much the bikes have changed. There’s no doubt that you are able to hold a line better, turn better, climb better, descend better, stop better with today’s steeds compared to what was out in the market back in the day. I can’t say I shied away from any trails on my Schwinn around here, but I will say that I can ride them with more confidence now on the newer bikes. I’ve yet to find any trail(s) around here that are that out of reach where they absolutely “need” a newer bike. You can tackle any trail around here on a hardtail or a rigid. May not be as confidence inspiring, but totally doable.
I believe the yrs of mtb experience is more important then anything else. If you have been riding aggressively for 20 yrs your skills and confidence level will be your greatest asset.
Bikes have gotten better, better tires, wheels, geometry, suspension, brakes, dropper post...these are all great improvements, however the learning curve for a beginner is still a learning curve.
Fitness, balance and being comfortable on a bike take years. We all like to think that spending $8,000 on a bike will make us awesome. I do admit to feeling awesome on my Tallboy when riding up north at Ringwood, Mooch, Wawayanda however riding a rigid SS at Hartshorne and Allaire is really fun too. Awesome in Awesome out.
I believe the yrs of mtb experience is more important then anything else. If you have been riding aggressively for 20 yrs your skills and confidence level will be your greatest asset.
Bikes have gotten better, better tires, wheels, geometry, suspension, brakes, dropper post...these are all great improvements, however the learning curve for a beginner is still a learning curve.
Fitness, balance and being comfortable on a bike take years. We all like to think that spending $8,000 on a bike will make us awesome. I do admit to feeling awesome on my Tallboy when riding up north at Ringwood, Mooch, Wawayanda however riding a rigid SS at Hartshorne and Allaire is really fun too. Awesome in Awesome out.
True, but take a beginner and put him on your Tallboy at CR and they will do MUCH better than they would on your SS, or a rigid 26" bike from the 90's.
I tell people all the time that riding my Fatbike with a suspension fork is like "mountain biking for dummies." There is no need to know how to pick a line. Just pedal.
Yes and no. FS allows you to ride with less skill as you dont have to even think about line choice. However, while a small log or rock feature maybe be easier on a FS, you still need some skill to clean it smoothly. Similar to what others have said, as you go up in skill, fitness starts to come into play. While you may be able to clean something, you will likely be dropped due to speed
I went back to HT, then rigid, then back to HT and now back on FS. I can see myself riding HT again, but aside from ever changing BB and Hub width standards, most all changes have been to the good.
one piece crank
Well-Known Member
I've never really followed the trends. Thirty years ago I rode a rigid MTB on any terrain I could find. Today, well, I ride rigid SS on just about anythign I can find. Ooooh - I did buy a Fatbike this year, but I'm told they don't exist anymore....