Wheel build help

qclabrat

Well-Known Member
#1
Finally started my first wheel build since I've got some downtime at the moment. Have Hadley hubs mated with KOM i29 rims with wheelsmith 15g straight spokes.
IMG_20180714_223037.jpg


Used the Prowheelbuilder calc to determine the spoke lengths but after speaking with @Mr.Moto , his calc was 2mm shorter across the board. Decided on the longer as shorter I'd thought would be much worse. Following a YT vid, the 3x lacing was a piece of cake.
IMG_20180714_235154.jpg


I started tightening each spoke evenly to match the exposed threads. But eventually having no threads exposed. Upon further inspection it appears that every two spokes they appear to be longer than the previous two. Did I screw up the simple lace job or are the spokes too long?
IMG_20180714_235246.jpg
 

Delish

Well-Known Member
Team MTBNJ Halter's
#3
Sounds like the hub is rotated relative to the rim. This usually happens when you probably have a glitch in your lacing. Recheck them all? Send a side view pic?
 

Magic

Formerly 1sh0t1b33r
Team MTBNJ Halter's
#4
This.^

I made a mistake on my second wheel, off by one. I don’t remember ending with two spokes next to each other either, but could be wrong. If everything looks good, back out all the nipples by the same amount. You can also try to grab the hub and push it side to side in the hoop for the spokes to settle and adjust a bit.
 

qclabrat

Well-Known Member
#6
Sounds like the hub is rotated relative to the rim. This usually happens when you probably have a glitch in your lacing. Recheck them all? Send a side view pic?
Compared it to another rim and the lacing seems right. The last pic has the doggie pointing to the every other pair of spokes which seems too long. I originally thought I might have not twisted to load the spokes enough but comparing the two the valve hole and spokes appear to be positioned correctly
IMG_20180717_075608.jpg

IMG_20180717_075400.jpg

IMG_20180717_075914.jpg
 

Magic

Formerly 1sh0t1b33r
Team MTBNJ Halter's
#8
Take a photo of the side of the wheel. More like your first photo, but zoomed out more and not laying on top of another wheel to confuse you with even more lacing.
 

CycleBoy

Sussex Bike and Sport
Shop Keep
#10
Compared it to another rim and the lacing seems right. The last pic has the doggie pointing to the every other pair of spokes which seems too long. I originally thought I might have not twisted to load the spokes enough but comparing the two the valve hole and spokes appear to be positioned correctly
View attachment 72856
View attachment 72857
View attachment 72858
you crossed the key spoke. So, every spoke has a pair. In this photo, look at your outboard spokes. It has a mate on the other hub flange. Hole are staggered on hub flanges. If your outboard spoke on the opposite flange is in front of the spoke on the flange we see in the photo, it must go to a nipple in front of the spoke on the flange we see in the photo. It appears to be behind it, thus throwing off spoke length completely.
 

Santapez

Well-Known Member
Team MTBNJ Halter's
#11
Are you using another wheel as a template?

I find it extremely helpful to have another wheel next to me with the same lacing to double check my work.
 

Juggernaut

Master of the Metaphor
#12
I’ve been wanting to learn how to do this.... it’s like voodoo/alchemy kinda stuff to me. I know @mattybfat has successfully taught himself to build wheels...... but he also has the advanced build-it/fix-it gene so...yeah.

Between bracing angles, cross patterns, tensionmeters, straight gauge vs double butted spokes, wheel dished.... how the hell do these things EVER work?
 

Mr.Moto

Well-Known Member
#13
Compared it to another rim and the lacing seems right. The last pic has the doggie pointing to the every other pair of spokes which seems too long. I originally thought I might have not twisted to load the spokes enough but comparing the two the valve hole and spokes appear to be positioned correctly
View attachment 72856
View attachment 72857
View attachment 72858
Hard to tell from the pictures but you might be off by one hole on one side of the hub.
 

Delish

Well-Known Member
Team MTBNJ Halter's
#14
you crossed the key spoke. So, every spoke has a pair. In this photo, look at your outboard spokes. It has a mate on the other hub flange. Hole are staggered on hub flanges. If your outboard spoke on the opposite flange is in front of the spoke on the flange we see in the photo, it must go to a nipple in front of the spoke on the flange we see in the photo. It appears to be behind it, thus throwing off spoke length completely.
Exactly. Another way of thinking about it is this: Look at the doggie photo. Call the first spoke to the left of the valve hole/gold tape your key spoke. Since this is a disc hub we will say that the spokes with elbows-out (i.e. heads-in) are the "pushing" spokes, including the key. The next "pushing" spoke is the one to the left (counter clockwise in the doggie photos) of the key spoke, which should also be elbows-out from the other flange and should come from the spoke hole that is just counter-clockwise from the key spoke. Look at the diagram I posted. Light blue spoke to the left (CCW) of the valve is the key. The dark blue spoke to the left (CCW) of that is the next elbows out spoke from the other flange. Lace all of the "pushing" spokes first then do the "pulling ones".

I can tell you from experience when your lacing is off in this way it's better to essentially start over. Remove all of the spokes except for key spoke and all its 7 sisters and go from there.
 

qclabrat

Well-Known Member
#16
you crossed the key spoke. So, every spoke has a pair. In this photo, look at your outboard spokes. It has a mate on the other hub flange. Hole are staggered on hub flanges. If your outboard spoke on the opposite flange is in front of the spoke on the flange we see in the photo, it must go to a nipple in front of the spoke on the flange we see in the photo. It appears to be behind it, thus throwing off spoke length completely.
is the key spoke the one closest to the valve hole on each side (to the left)?
which are the outboard spokes? the j-bend end up or down?
 

qclabrat

Well-Known Member
#17
Are you using another wheel as a template?

I find it extremely helpful to have another wheel next to me with the same lacing to double check my work.
I did but afterwards with the pink hub, they seem to be the same, but I need to do a better job checking the two.
 

qclabrat

Well-Known Member
#18
Exactly. Another way of thinking about it is this: Look at the doggie photo. Call the first spoke to the left of the valve hole/gold tape your key spoke. Since this is a disc hub we will say that the spokes with elbows-out (i.e. heads-in) are the "pushing" spokes, including the key. The next "pushing" spoke is the one to the left (counter clockwise in the doggie photos) of the key spoke, which should also be elbows-out from the other flange and should come from the spoke hole that is just counter-clockwise from the key spoke. Look at the diagram I posted. Light blue spoke to the left (CCW) of the valve is the key. The dark blue spoke to the left (CCW) of that is the next elbows out spoke from the other flange. Lace all of the "pushing" spokes first then do the "pulling ones".

I can tell you from experience when your lacing is off in this way it's better to essentially start over. Remove all of the spokes except for key spoke and all its 7 sisters and go from there.
hmm, seems like the key spoke is "elbows in". I'll confirm later and do a rebuild tonight
 

Dingo

Well-Known Member
#20
As much as I enjoy mechanical and working on things, I would rather weave baskets than build another wheel. Big help ain't I?

Good luck!