What’s a race?

[chemgirl]

I think Enduro has definitely pulled some XC racers away. I’m one of the guilty, I’ve raced almost exclusively enduro for the last four years. The majority of the folks I meet at races have XC backgrounds.

Being female the classes are always small (xc, endurance or enduro), but i am one who does NOT want more classes. Winning is not that important to me any more. I would rather come in 9/10 than 1/2. I’m quite often the oldest female at the enduro races. Last weekend out of 300 racers there was actually 2 women older than me!! Should we have a 45+ women enduro class, no! Not until we can get a minimum of 5-10 women to consistently fill that class.

I’m sure many women disagree with me, but that’s my opinion. If I race against 2 people it is a race, but I would much rather have fewer, larger fields.

 

[SmooveP]

If Tatum can hold a successful race, Cheesequake would be lights out yo...

Too bad there is no easy answer. I tend to drink beer and go boating in the summer. Easier.

Except the Tatum race is no more because the Park System says it's no longer successful.

 

[Dave Taylor]

Was thinking about this last night, and @ryderX brings up the point i was thinking; If you look at the results sheets from the past 5 years or so, how many names have gone missing from the cat 1/pro races? Life changes, moving, burnout, not caring anymore to race at that high level. Obviously you'd hope cat2/3 racers would move up and fill the spots up, but that level should always have the same names. I have no idea what my research will tell us, but lets dig:

Thankfully the h2h website still has the results from way back, so it makes this easy. Lets look at Lewis Morris; probably the most popular and well attended race in the h2h series.

2012 Lewis Morris - Cat 1 Open

1. Ed Ceccolini
2. John Burns
3. Ben Williams
4. Rich Wolter
5. Ken Welch
6. John Arias
7. Brian Lariviere
8. Greg Waggoner
9. Ken Lundgren
10. Brian Kelley
11. Lorenzao Serra
12. Dave Martin

2018 Lewis Morris - Cat 1 Open

1. Nick Lando
2. Andrew Freye
3. Bobby Lea
4. Gregg Galleta
5. Szymon Niemotko
6. Joe Thomas
7. Tommy Steinbrunner
8. Lucas Smallidge
9. Leo Cardona
10. Rich Wolter
11. Ed Ceccolini
12. Jonah Vasquez
13. Frank Oreilly
14. Chris Forenbaher
15. Tyler Knapp
16. Robert Muccuen
17. Gale Hess
18. Patrick Carey
19. Matt Bruno
20. Charlie Rey
21. Jesse Stauffer

I expected to see no real repeat names, but I bolded the ones that did. So only TWO people from 2012 are still racing pro, or at least attended and finished this category. So maybe people are still showing up to race, or maybe it's a bad example? Maybe a different race:

2012 Jungle - Cat 1 Open

1. Ed Ceccolini
2. Ben Williams
3. Forrest Conrad
4. Mike Jaworski
5. Jonathan Schottler
6. Matt Miller
7. Greg Waggoner
8. Ryan Heershap
9. Rich Wolter
10. Ken Welch
11. Brian Kelley
12. John Arias
13. Johan Koserius
14. Theo Procopos
15. Cole Oberman

2015 Jungle - Cat 1 Open State Champs

1. Ben Williams
2. Mike Jaworski
3. Dillon Van Wart
4. Ross Anderson
5. Frank OReilly
6. Nick Glasser
7. Brian Kelley
8. David Kahl
9. Peter Striegel
10. John Arias
11. Cody LaCosta
12. Paul Meier
13. @UtahJoe wit the big fat DNF

Again, bolding the names of repeat people from 2012 and 2015.

Is this just showing that a small percentage of people continually race at a high level, or that the turn over is so great that at some point, there isn't new fresh blood to fill in the field like normal? It seems that the numbers don't change, just the people doing the race do.

Okay last one:

2011 Wawayanda - Cat 1 Open

1. Michael Mooradian
2. Ron Harding
3. William Showers
4. Johan Koserius
5. Brian Lariviere
6. Ben Williams
7. Greg Waggoner
8. Ken Lundgren
9. Ryan Heerschap
10. Daniel Stewart
11. John Arias
12. Joseph Azze
13. Sean Cavanaugh

2017 Wawayanda - Cat 1 Open

1. Frank OReilly
2. Rich Wolter
3. Rob Price
4. @UtahJoe
5. Leo Cardona
6. Joe Johnston
7. Mike Montablano
8. Victor Schepisi
9. John Arias
10. Nick Glasser

This is a full refresh of names from 2011 to 2017. Not one repeat. Where are those 13 guys from 2011?
Just one name from 2011 to 2017.

Interesting but an 8 year span is pretty extended for any sport. Alot of those names are gone from H2H but still race open elsewhere. Brian Kelly, Ben Williams(was at Stewart 2 weeks ago, Ross Anderson, Nick Glasser, Rich Wolter).

 

[Pearl]

Interesting but an 8 year span is pretty extended for any sport. Alot of those names are gone from H2H but still race open elsewhere. Brian Kelly, Ben Williams(was at Stewart 2 weeks ago, Ross Anderson, Nick Glasser, Rich Wolter).

Stewart was new so I couldn't compare to 2011, sorry

 

[jShort]

Stewart was new so I couldn't compare to 2011, sorry

Solid research and data regardless.

 

[UtahJoe]

@UtahJoe wit the big fat DNF

Ya but I did leave part of my brain on the pavement that day if you remember

 

[UtahJoe]

Interesting but an 8 year span is pretty extended for any sport. Alot of those names are gone from H2H but still race open elsewhere. Brian Kelly, Ben Williams(was at Stewart 2 weeks ago, Ross Anderson, Nick Glasser, Rich Wolter).

heres a great one for you....my first h2h cat 1 race....Wayway 2010....still one of the hardest races I ever did

Cat 1 (not pro) 30-39 (21 FINISHERS that day, 27 on the starting line)

Place Name Bib No Gender/Age Laps Time
1 Roger Foco 64 M/37 3 2:32:13.2
Lap 1 47:49.8
Lap 2 50:00.6
Lap 3 54:22.7

2 Ryan Heerschap @xc62701 66 M/31 3 2:36:55.9
Lap 1 49:12.8
Lap 2 51:52.3
Lap 3 55:50.6

3 Gregg Cosgrove 63 M/37 3 2:37:04.6
Lap 1 49:35.7
Lap 2 52:21.7
Lap 3 55:07.2

4 Walker William Jackson 67 M/36 3 2:42:27.8
Lap 1 49:56.9
Lap 2 53:52.7
Lap 3 58:38.1

5 Robert Keller 85 M/35 3 2:43:48.9
Lap 1 51:39.1
Lap 2 55:04.9
Lap 3 57:04.8

6 Steven Mancuso 72 M/36 3 2:45:35.3
Lap 1 49:17.9
Lap 2 53:44.0
Lap 3 1:02:33.2

7 marcin gembicki 65 M/32 3 2:49:53.3
Lap 1 54:23.6
Lap 2 57:11.5
Lap 3 58:18.1

8 John Arias 61 M/35 3 2:52:30.0
Lap 1 52:14.9
Lap 2 57:17.8
Lap 3 1:02:57.2

9 Marco Mora 86 M/36 3 2:55:32.4
Lap 1 54:32.4
Lap 2 57:53.7
Lap 3 1:03:06.2

10 Joseph Zurawski @Norm 81 M/39 3 2:58:27.3
Lap 1 54:53.9
Lap 2 58:46.7
Lap 3 1:04:46.6

11 noah meineke 73 M/36 3 3:05:45.7
Lap 1 54:45.5
Lap 2 1:00:55.6
Lap 3 1:10:04.4

12 Martin Kozera 68 M/37 3 3:09:44.3
Lap 1 57:03.9
Lap 2 1:04:30.6
Lap 3 1:08:09.7

13 Mike Kucharski 69 M/30 3 3:09:45.3
Lap 1 59:58.9
Lap 2 1:02:15.2
Lap 3 1:07:31.2

14 jeremy swift 79 M/39 3 3:12:04.8
Lap 1 56:47.9
Lap 2 1:01:24.5
Lap 3 1:13:52.4

15 joseph petrarca 76 M/34 3 3:14:55.2
Lap 1 59:52.5
Lap 2 1:05:12.8
Lap 3 1:09:49.8

16 Robb Young 80 M/38 3 3:24:06.1
Lap 1 1:05:39.1
Lap 2 1:08:09.5
Lap 3 1:10:17.4

17 Ryan Gloss 83 M/35 3 3:29:27.7
Lap 1 58:53.9
Lap 2 1:09:04.6
Lap 3 1:21:29.1

18 Alex Roskin 78 M/38 3 3:31:00.3
Lap 1 58:49.7
Lap 2 1:11:21.7
Lap 3 1:20:48.8

19 James Fox 87 M/35 3 3:50:95.0
Lap 1 1:10:07.9
Lap 2 1:12:44.9
Lap 3 1:28:42.0

20 Michael Lukowiak 70 M/35 3 3:55:20.0
Lap 1 1:04:19.2
Lap 2 1:27:32.1
Lap 3 1:23:28.6

21 Luis Rivera 77 M/33 3 4:18:30.0
Lap 1 1:11:55.3
Lap 2 1:33:19.0
Lap 3 1:33:15.6

22 Juan Munster 10 M/32 2 1:37:34.9
Lap 1 44:56.9
Lap 2 52:38.0

23 Jason Clark 62 M/39 2 1:53:17.7
Lap 1 50:49.8
Lap 2 1:02:27.9

24 Ross Anderson 60 M/33 2 2:01:18.6
Lap 1 54:30.5
Lap 2 1:06:48.0

25 matt majka 71 M/31 2 2:07:08.5
Lap 1 1:00:06.0
Lap 2 1:07:02.4

26 Alex Pearson 75 M/39 2 2:21:24.0
Lap 1 56:45.8
Lap 2 1:24:38.2

27 Stephen petersen 84 M/30 1 49:16.8
Lap 1 49:16.8



Ok following year, 2011...wow look I went from 15th to 3rd....oh and my time went from 3hr14min to 2:20

Place Name Bib No Gender/Age Laps Time
1 Scott Feltmate 75 M/32 3 2:14:31.1
Lap 1 43:15.1
Lap 2 44:31.1
Lap 3 46:44.8

2 Ross Anderson 60 M/34 3 2:16:44.9
Lap 1 43:58.7
Lap 2 45:40.4
Lap 3 47:05.7

3 joseph petrarca 68 M/35 3 2:20:49.2
Lap 1 44:46.9
Lap 2 47:39.8
Lap 3 48:22.4

4 benjamin smith 71 M/35 3 2:22:59.7
Lap 1 46:02.8
Lap 2 47:54.3
Lap 3 49:02.5

5 Keith Licata 77 M/38 3 2:24:14.0
Lap 1 45:20.1
Lap 2 48:46.4
Lap 3 50:07.4

6 FRANK O'REILLY 66 M/39 3 2:24:25.9
Lap 1 43:16.6
Lap 2 45:44.6
Lap 3 55:24.6

7 Ben Tufford 73 M/39 3 2:25:26.6
Lap 1 46:46.3
Lap 2 48:43.0
Lap 3 49:57.1

8 Alex Roskin 69 M/39 3 2:27:36.7
Lap 1 46:51.7
Lap 2 49:44.3
Lap 3 51:00.6

9 chris santalucia 70 M/38 3 2:32:12.5
Lap 1 47:53.4
Lap 2 52:00.8
Lap 3 52:18.1

10 jamie myers 64 M/30 3 2:33:30.9
Lap 1 49:21.7
Lap 2 51:07.8
Lap 3 53:01.3

11 Jeff Myers 65 M/33 3 2:34:05.0
Lap 1 47:09.9
Lap 2 50:54.4
Lap 3 56:00.6

12 Robb Young 74 M/39 3 2:37:26.1
Lap 1 50:44.8
Lap 2 52:43.1
Lap 3 53:58.1

13 ray hyland 62 M/37 3 2:43:51.3
Lap 1 55:11.5
Lap 2 50:47.3
Lap 3 57:52.4

14 Jared Strowbridge 72 M/31 3 2:45:52.0
Lap 1 48:35.1
Lap 2 55:12.0
Lap 3 1:02:04.8

15 Tom Pannorfi 67 M/33 3 2:48:56.1
Lap 1 43:13.6
Lap 2 50:45.8
Lap 3 1:14:56.6

16 Jon Lombardo 76 M/39 2 1:35:39.6
Lap 1 43:09.1
Lap 2 52:30.5

17 Michael Lukowiak 63 M/36 1 49:50.1
Lap 1 49:50.1



OK how many of those names repeated from 2010 to 2011? 3?

There are a number of reasons for this...Pro class changed more to what it is now (same distance as cat 1, money as prizes), some people dropped out, moved to pro, etc...Really hard to generalize.

 

[pooriggy]

Looking at the data, one can't deny the fact that when they changed the name of Sport class to Cat 2 and started making wider handlebars and better suspension forks the numbers at races declined. I think it's crystal clear that if we just go back to 2011 standards the numbers will come back.

 

[mattybfat]

Hey that's my homey hayes in front of you

Looking at the data, one can't deny the fact that when they changed the name of Sport class to Cat 2 and started making wider handlebars and better suspension forks the numbers at races declined. I think it's crystal clear that if we just go back to 2011 standards the numbers will come back.
View attachment 95782
View attachment 95783

 

[JDurk]

Looking at the data, one can't deny the fact that when they changed the name of Sport class to Cat 2 and started making wider handlebars and better suspension forks the numbers at races declined. I think it's crystal clear that if we just go back to 2011 standards the numbers will come back.
View attachment 95782
View attachment 95783

....and 26" wheels

 

[JimN]

 

[Pearl]

now that is eye opening