Tubeless vs Tubular Talk for 2016

Pearl

Pearl

THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING
Everything I ever find regarding tubeless is from 2010, 2011, that range. After my latest tire failure (mostly because my stuff is worn the F out and I kept saying I could get one more race out of it), It's time to buy a set of new tires or buy a Alpha 400 wheelset and two tubeless tires. I have ton's of bent, not round/true wheels that could all use bearings or what-have-you.

I know what tubular tires I like, that isn't the problem/question. I'm just unsure if I want to stick with tubular.

I know that the Stans CX disc wheels have had great success, but what about the Alpha ones? Are they the same technology in terms of the Valor/Iron Cross/Grail jams? Do you have experience? I want to believe.
 
Stan's alpha rims have narrow inner widths. 17mm (alpha) vs. 23mm (valor, crests). Wider is better. And, while a few mm's is not a big deal. 17mm would be considered very narrow (i.e. obsolete) these days for tubeless/cross.
 
Can't speak to the Alpha's but I've been running IronCross with Specialized Terra Pro 2Bliss tires with no issues. 28.5/29.5 #s with the bike tipping the scale at ~22 and me either side of 170. Funny, now I gotz some HEDs with PDX tubularzzzzzz. One race so far and me likey. Need to fiddle with psi on the new ones more though.
 
I'm pretty sure my next wheelset on my cross bike will be a Stan's tubeless. I've always had luck with tubeless tires on cross...

Even with the stock wheels from my super x...I set them up with some bonty tubeless cx tires And although heavy, they are fine otherwise. Beat the piss out of them riding to Nassau and no problem.
 
pearl said:
Everything I ever find regarding tubeless is from 2010, 2011, that range. After my latest tire failure (mostly because my stuff is worn the F out and I kept saying I could get one more race out of it), It's time to buy a set of new tires or buy a Alpha 400 wheelset and two tubeless tires. I have ton's of bent, not round/true wheels that could all use bearings or what-have-you.

I know what tubular tires I like, that isn't the problem/question. I'm just unsure if I want to stick with tubular.

I know that the Stans CX disc wheels have had great success, but what about the Alpha ones? Are they the same technology in terms of the Valor/Iron Cross/Grail jams? Do you have experience? I want to believe.
Click to expand...

I have alphas. as far as I can tell the 340's are made from super top secret extrusion of duck liver pate. You will bend them. They make great road wheels for super lightweights like me doe. The 400s' are beefier...(perhaps "beefier" like ramen beef broth). You might survive racing on them.

I would race tubeless on Iron CX or Grail or Valor but I will not on the 340's. You are better of sticking to cheap alloy tubulars. Peoeple are practically giving them away these days
 
Master @Delish, if not the 400, would you have a beefier, better tubeless rim you could recommend for us ancient folks with rim brakes?
 
This is the problem; Stans will most likely not be upgrading the Alpha line for CX use since disc is taking over, and I'm going to hold out as long as I can for a disc bike... sadly. It feels like a disc bike will be in my future at some point, but I really really like my bicycle...
 
1sh0t1b33r said:
Master @Delish, if not the 400, would you have a beefier, better tubeless rim you could recommend for us ancient folks with rim brakes?
Click to expand...
I'm not @Delish , but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night...

I've had success setting up Mavic Open Pros with the old school Stan's rim strips and Hutchinson tubeless tires. Never burped, ran low enough pressures that I was pinging the rims on root and rocks on the Horseshoe course of old.

I've also set up Hed Belgiums with yellow tape and run Hutchinson road tubeless tires with no issues, so I imagine cross tires would be similar.
 
Hed Belgium + non-tubeless PDX + gorilla tape and hope = almost killing @graveyardman67 at Holster a coupla years ago.
Grails are setting up nice, doe (to spell it the @pearl way). But it ain't all flowers and ponies.

The bad -
Kenda Cholla rear tire on Grail at 35 psi burped severely on a remount at Charm City. Sads. Tire had only been mounted the night before so it may be operator error in that I didn't let it set or ride it at all outside the 2 pre-ride laps.
PDX front got sideways on a dumb corner day one of Supercross. Burped. Happily, I was right in front of the pit entrance. Only lost 10 psi, hasn't been an issue since. It was piloting error. Similar idiocy on a tubular might have rolled it.
Dented the rear Grail rim at Bubble on the rocky downhill. Running 33 psi at the start, not sure when I did it, but the rim was getting whacked pretty hard on that section. Tire didn't lose air during the race, and the ding hasn't affected air-tightness (izzat a word) at all. Same combo at NBX this weekend was AOK at 34 psi with the same pilot. This rim would be unridable with cantis.

I think there might be something to be gained using a Crest instead of the Grail. Or, best thing, a Valor (that's the mtb rim, right?). Timmerman uses the Valor all season on the cx bike, then flips it over to the mtb for the rest of the year. The grail has a higher rim profile, as it's rated to 100 psi for road tires, as well as stupid low for cx. The extended rim MAY make it more susceptible to being dented. Especially when I'm driving. I'm going Valors next year.

I LIKE tubeless. I suck just as bad on them as I did on tubulars, but even with the burps, they've been FAR less of a headache. And being able to swap stuff around (early in the week before a race, not day before) has been awesome. It made it ok to hate the Chollas, sell 'em and buy a set of Clement BOS's. 15 minutes to swap. I'd be at that for a week with tubulars and I'd've for sure ripped one getting it off. Which isn't to say tubulars aren't awesome, but I don't need to spend all my time rearranging the deck chairs this Titanic of a season.

Believe.
 
I run a set of Hed Ardennes plus with Specilized Terra's. I've only raced them once and can't remember what pressure but I would guess 22-23. I use them all the time for training but with higher pressure 30ish.
 
Regarding the example of Bill nearly dying: Non-tubeless tire on a non-tubeless specific rim should certainly be questionable, especially given low pressures and the undoubtedly aggressive @graveyardman67 cornering ability.
 
The HED Belgium Plus rims are nice but really friggin expensive for an aluminum clincher rim you are eventually going to bend on a rock.

There are other wide, tubeless compatible rims with machines sidewalls out there I've not tried any of them but you are better off with something wide. Stans supposedly has worked hard to nail down the bead lock design on the newer breed of rims but these have some kind of tubeless rim bed too. I think the extra width really helps prevent burps and also gives the tire better shape. Two options:
Velocity A23 (the newer tubeless compatible)
Kinlin xr31t (bikehubstore c31w).
 
Imo tubular and that's the only thing I feel confident with. But I know first hand that Rich W and his Valor WTB tubeless setup have been burp free.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom