Trail Damage from Selfish Riders
- Thread starter MuniMan
- Start date
Wait. You expect me to get up out of this chair? Now that's crazy talk.
Where are these robots everyone keeps talking about? Can we have a self-driving car park itself in front of the trail head on muddy days?
I solve problems.
Matt_
I Get Jokes
Seems like this genius idea was glossed over. People don't read signs but they love strava.....
I think it got more likes than anything I've ever posted, but thanks for the extra recognition of my brilliance
Even though I basically just stole the idea from the JORBA Ringwood chapter, where they created a Strava segment to solicit TM volunteers to work on the white trail a few years ago
rlb
Well-Known Member
I think it got more likes than anything I've ever posted, but thanks for the extra recognition of my brilliance
Even though I basically just stole the idea from the JORBA Ringwood chapter, where they created a Strava segment to solicit TM volunteers to work on the white trail a few years ago
I unliked it so I could like it again
its pretty simple. stalk strava. you can find the people that are wrecking trails in about 30 seconds.
https://www.strava.com/athletes/768527
https://www.strava.com/activities/1401160213#34787397723
https://www.strava.com/athletes/25812591
https://www.strava.com/activities/1401059274#34784598040
look at the pictures in the last link. it doesn't take long to figure out what happened to the trail when they rode. i'll save everyone the trouble.
i haven't logged on the site in a while because honestly, i find the same conversation about trail damage and the like pretty boring at this point. we gotta do something more than a sign, or an app. that ain't gonna change shit.
personally, i've tried reaching out via the interwebs to multiple people after seeing them post something like the above. i never get a response. why? they don't give a shit. i've walked out on the trail in my work dress shoes on my way home from work to get an up-to-the-minute trail conditions report; i have even done it on my way to work at six mile to post conditions here to help try to avert riders from rutting up the place. it doesn't help.
education works for people who care to be educated. in my opinion, trails need to be closed when wet, or seasonally. that's what's gonna stop it. that's up to the parks.
when we have riders riding in mud, we are gonna have access issues. when we have riders night riding, we are gonna have access issues. when we have riders poaching, we are gonna have access issues. we ride bikes in the woods - it's astonishing how much of an issue doing this is.
sorry about the rant. i just would like the conversation to change... somewhere. going in circles on this topic really isn't addressing anything.
https://www.strava.com/athletes/768527
https://www.strava.com/activities/1401160213#34787397723
https://www.strava.com/athletes/25812591
https://www.strava.com/activities/1401059274#34784598040
look at the pictures in the last link. it doesn't take long to figure out what happened to the trail when they rode. i'll save everyone the trouble.
i haven't logged on the site in a while because honestly, i find the same conversation about trail damage and the like pretty boring at this point. we gotta do something more than a sign, or an app. that ain't gonna change shit.
personally, i've tried reaching out via the interwebs to multiple people after seeing them post something like the above. i never get a response. why? they don't give a shit. i've walked out on the trail in my work dress shoes on my way home from work to get an up-to-the-minute trail conditions report; i have even done it on my way to work at six mile to post conditions here to help try to avert riders from rutting up the place. it doesn't help.
education works for people who care to be educated. in my opinion, trails need to be closed when wet, or seasonally. that's what's gonna stop it. that's up to the parks.
when we have riders riding in mud, we are gonna have access issues. when we have riders night riding, we are gonna have access issues. when we have riders poaching, we are gonna have access issues. we ride bikes in the woods - it's astonishing how much of an issue doing this is.
sorry about the rant. i just would like the conversation to change... somewhere. going in circles on this topic really isn't addressing anything.
I Ride Bikes
Well-Known Member
I've said this so many times. The ONLY thing that will work is for the parks to start getting involved and creating a way to manage trail use. It works in every state it's implemented in. When there are official signs/gates and the threat of fines, most people will think again. Until then it's beating a dead horse.
Have mercenaries been effective?
As if you were ever turned on to the cause?
Tim
aka sptimmy43
I think you're probably right. You'd think for the taxes we pay in this state that there would be plenty of resources available...
Rusty
Well-Known Member
do you think there could ever be a way that a bunch of parks could fund a retiree or two to go and open and close trails as needed? Rope it off and put up closed signs, then remove them when appropriate? sounds like my dream job. could spend muddy days re-educating idiots in the parking lots.
Steve Vai
Endurance Guy: Tolerates most of us.
There might've been a day or 2 in there somewhere.
rick81721
Lothar
Hey I would have done it for free but there was some access issue as I remember.
huffster
Well-Known Member
I've been reading along and finally decided to comment.
I really don't think that you can stop people who don't want to be stopped. You simply can't close the woods. Rope off several entrances at Wawayanda, and I know 10 more ways to get in. The easiest of which is to simply go around, or over the rope.
I do think some educational signage at the most popular entry points would be worthwhile. Sticking with the Wawayanda example, a sign in the Ferber Circle about not riding muddy trails and respecting other trail users would probably catch some attention. Is it a cure all? No. But, having that sign somehow identifiable as a message from MTBers would be valuable. I'm not so sure the term "JORBA" by itself conjures up images of MTBers to the average Joe.
Along the lines of educating, each and every one of us can try and be a trail ambassador and find a way to pass the right message (nicely!) and lead by example. Maybe some won't listen, but some will. Similarly, when we encounter another trail user, we need to make a positive impression because we are trying to offset any negative impression that one of the "bad seeds" may have previously made. This can help other user groups to avoid stereo-typing us MTBers.
Back to signs...I'm willing and I own a staple gun. So, I would gladly staple a laminated 8-1/2" x 11" sign to a tree or in a kiosk at a couple parks I frequent. But, I gather we need to show a sample to someone and get permission first. How's that work?
I really don't think that you can stop people who don't want to be stopped. You simply can't close the woods. Rope off several entrances at Wawayanda, and I know 10 more ways to get in. The easiest of which is to simply go around, or over the rope.
I do think some educational signage at the most popular entry points would be worthwhile. Sticking with the Wawayanda example, a sign in the Ferber Circle about not riding muddy trails and respecting other trail users would probably catch some attention. Is it a cure all? No. But, having that sign somehow identifiable as a message from MTBers would be valuable. I'm not so sure the term "JORBA" by itself conjures up images of MTBers to the average Joe.
Along the lines of educating, each and every one of us can try and be a trail ambassador and find a way to pass the right message (nicely!) and lead by example. Maybe some won't listen, but some will. Similarly, when we encounter another trail user, we need to make a positive impression because we are trying to offset any negative impression that one of the "bad seeds" may have previously made. This can help other user groups to avoid stereo-typing us MTBers.
Back to signs...I'm willing and I own a staple gun. So, I would gladly staple a laminated 8-1/2" x 11" sign to a tree or in a kiosk at a couple parks I frequent. But, I gather we need to show a sample to someone and get permission first. How's that work?
2 cents. Agreed you can't stop everyone. Always going to be an a-hole. Wildcat is my backyard literally. I have had people follow my strava right into my yard, which is totally cool by me. And I've had many conversations with moto riders on trails built for foot and bike. It's rare that I see people back on the moto once informed of the situation. Educating people is the primary goal.
I present FOTW in Vermont. Trail users group that I have supported over the years as well as JORBA. http://www.fotwheel.org/conditions/ They have a very active site that is regularly updated with trail conditions and CLOSURES. In many of the parks the trails heads are marked as closed during critical conditions. Is it perfect, no, but certainly it's something. Each park in NJ certainly has core locals. In fact, at one point I was probably regularly reporting on conditions at WILDCAT or the Tourne here at MTBNJ.com. Not that anyone paid attention. I for one, would be willing to take time to post or visit (my backyard) to update trail conditions and/or post trail closings at primary trail heads. That's how it gets done. Look I don't have time to go to all kinds of meetings but I can drive or ride 10 mins to flip a sign.
I present FOTW in Vermont. Trail users group that I have supported over the years as well as JORBA. http://www.fotwheel.org/conditions/ They have a very active site that is regularly updated with trail conditions and CLOSURES. In many of the parks the trails heads are marked as closed during critical conditions. Is it perfect, no, but certainly it's something. Each park in NJ certainly has core locals. In fact, at one point I was probably regularly reporting on conditions at WILDCAT or the Tourne here at MTBNJ.com. Not that anyone paid attention. I for one, would be willing to take time to post or visit (my backyard) to update trail conditions and/or post trail closings at primary trail heads. That's how it gets done. Look I don't have time to go to all kinds of meetings but I can drive or ride 10 mins to flip a sign.
Monkey Soup
Angry Wanker
They have a good system up in VT, VMBA does the same thing with closing the trails. Conditions are on their website, and they put signs and ropes across the trails, for all trail users (bike and foot). Is it perfect? No, people still poach, but it removes all ambiguity over whether a trail is closed or not, you can’t claim ignorance if you’re busted. However, the situation is different up there, as the bikers are the primary user group that builds and maintains many of the trails. You do you close a trail down here in NJ where it is a county or state park, with multiple user groups?
w_b
Well-Known Member
My 2.3s leave no trace riding in your massive 4.6 ruts.
You have got to hit offenders in their wallet to have a lasting effect. Get caught growin weed in your basement and they seize your house. Just like Air Marshals, have Trail Marshals on snowshoes with multiple 15 round magazines who cite you and relieve you of your muddy whip on the spot. Stalk Strava to get leads and the social aspect will get the word out immediately. Mandatory court appearance, fines, required community service / trail maintenance.
Oh, and get the trail conditions wedgie workin again.
You have got to hit offenders in their wallet to have a lasting effect. Get caught growin weed in your basement and they seize your house. Just like Air Marshals, have Trail Marshals on snowshoes with multiple 15 round magazines who cite you and relieve you of your muddy whip on the spot. Stalk Strava to get leads and the social aspect will get the word out immediately. Mandatory court appearance, fines, required community service / trail maintenance.
Oh, and get the trail conditions wedgie workin again.