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GratefulRider
Active Member
While on my ride this morning I was thinking about the whole "HTFU" thing.
1st, all things are relative. Let's just get that out of the way. But it's a mental thing. Tell yourself "this sucks" and it will. Tell yourself "i can tolerate this" and you will.
Which leads me to...I believe HTFU is what you tell yourself. If you don't find yourself thinking this from to time, you probably suck. Not just on the bike but in life. It may not be HTFU but it's gotta be something along those lines.
3rd: why? HTFU gets you to push a harder and destroy yourself at 5.5hrs so you can get that extra lap in the 6hr race. It's what gets you to take the hilly route home instead of the flat. It's what you think when you kit up while watching rain drops hit the puddle outside. Again, if you're not pushing yourself be it in a race, out the door, etc, you probably suck. You might be ok with sucking. If you are, don't worry about HTFU.
The rules in general: the rules are fun but there is truth to a lot of them. You shouldn't follow them with monastic dedication but you should at least consider them if you want to be a respected member of peloton (which extends far beyond this site). If you choose to show no respect to the history or accepted culture of the sport, good for you. blaze your own path and ride around looking like a vagabond or worse, that's fine. But don't bitch when other riders don't respect you or don't say "hi". Just like you should wear a suit & tie to a wedding/funeral. It's out of respect for those around you and yourself. Respect the sport, the culture, races are for winning or training so HTFU and ride it out. No quitting early that's bullshiit. Do what you said you were going to do or stfu. If you feel it's unsafe to ride, go for a run or ride indoors.
I'll probably want to edit this once I see it posted but it'll be buried with either pictures of kittens, people trying to defend their actions, or Mitch calling me an asshole so I'm not going to bother.
Discuss.
1st, all things are relative. Let's just get that out of the way. But it's a mental thing. Tell yourself "this sucks" and it will. Tell yourself "i can tolerate this" and you will.
Which leads me to...I believe HTFU is what you tell yourself. If you don't find yourself thinking this from to time, you probably suck. Not just on the bike but in life. It may not be HTFU but it's gotta be something along those lines.
3rd: why? HTFU gets you to push a harder and destroy yourself at 5.5hrs so you can get that extra lap in the 6hr race. It's what gets you to take the hilly route home instead of the flat. It's what you think when you kit up while watching rain drops hit the puddle outside. Again, if you're not pushing yourself be it in a race, out the door, etc, you probably suck. You might be ok with sucking. If you are, don't worry about HTFU.
The rules in general: the rules are fun but there is truth to a lot of them. You shouldn't follow them with monastic dedication but you should at least consider them if you want to be a respected member of peloton (which extends far beyond this site). If you choose to show no respect to the history or accepted culture of the sport, good for you. blaze your own path and ride around looking like a vagabond or worse, that's fine. But don't bitch when other riders don't respect you or don't say "hi". Just like you should wear a suit & tie to a wedding/funeral. It's out of respect for those around you and yourself. Respect the sport, the culture, races are for winning or training so HTFU and ride it out. No quitting early that's bullshiit. Do what you said you were going to do or stfu. If you feel it's unsafe to ride, go for a run or ride indoors.
I'll probably want to edit this once I see it posted but it'll be buried with either pictures of kittens, people trying to defend their actions, or Mitch calling me an asshole so I'm not going to bother.
Discuss.
asshole 
But I do agree with some of what your saying but not all. Just because someone doesn't give the same effort into riding as you do does not make them a loser at life.. They just might not have the time to spare to be that better rider. Look, I give 100% plus percent into every race and training ride but Im not as fit or as fast as I could be because I just don't have the time to fully commit to it. I get by on the time I have, I have fun with the time I have and I enjoy both worlds. To commit 100% I would be giving up too much. As it is now I live , sleep and breath biking but I have a business that is suffering for the amount of time I already commit to riding and the time away on bike trips. Plus my wife likes to see me once in awhile.
But I do agree with some of what your saying but not all. Just because someone doesn't give the same effort into riding as you do does not make them a loser at life.. They just might not have the time to spare to be that better rider. Look, I give 100% plus percent into every race and training ride but Im not as fit or as fast as I could be because I just don't have the time to fully commit to it. I get by on the time I have, I have fun with the time I have and I enjoy both worlds. To commit 100% I would be giving up too much. As it is now I live , sleep and breath biking but I have a business that is suffering for the amount of time I already commit to riding and the time away on bike trips. Plus my wife likes to see me once in awhile.
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Jeff - that's a great post. Please don't delete it.
Today I want to talk about sucking. We as a society have a negative connotation to this word, and in Jeff's post I think you see where it can be taken as a sort of negative lean. But it doesn't have to. I think it's ok to suck. I think you need to embrace the sucking. I think sucking is real, it's life.
Because, I think this. I think we all suck in pretty much everything we do. Everything.
So we suck compared to our peers? No. Compared to the best? Yes, we do. Always. I referenced this earlier, that I was bad at biking because I went 14 mph when I started. I remember the first century I ever did. I went 12.x mph. I sucked. I sucked the high hog of heaven and that's the plain truth of the matter.
But you know, that's ok. Because I was sucking less than myself of the previous year. And in the end, I think we really want to strive to suck less. But also in that same end, we still just all suck.
You play chess as a hobby? I bet you suck at it. Put you in front of a grand master, and I bet you lose in minutes and feel like a douche. You like to cook? You food is good, I enjoy eating it. But I bet it sucks compared to even the lowest level chef out there. Your job? I bet you suck at it too compared to the best people who do the same thing.
Yeah, we all suck. And I'm sure there are cases out there where someone reading this doesn't suck at something. But the vast majority of us suck at what we do as a living, as a hobby, in life. We suck at everything. There, that's about it.
But who cares? Do you know what Karpov said when asked if he had any other hobbies besides chess? He said stamp collecting and Marxism. Kasparov replied, "Nothing." You can maybe be the absolute best at something but that leaves you nothing else. Nothing, literally nothing, else.
I could go on like this for a while. But since I suck at writing and making a point, I'll just move on and try to poorly get to the overall idea of this. Nobody cares if you suck at something. In fact, the less you suck at 1 particular thing the more you probably suck at other things. Some of the most amazing CEOs suck royal balls at being husbands & fathers. Again, like I said, I suck at this so I digress.
Isn't life about just sucking less. Relative to the collective on this site, I maybe don't suck so much at biking. Relative to the people I race, maybe I suck a bit more. Or maybe a lot more. And on and on. Most of everything I do I just try to suck less than I did before. Life is a scale of Suck, try to get yourself as far from the Total Suck classification as you can. But know that when you wake up every day and go to bed at night, probably everything you do will be some effort in sucking at something, even if it is staying in bed. I bet you suck at that too.
The point is this. Sucking is not bad. Sucking is life. And this is ok. Knowing that if you try something and fail at it is perfectly acceptable means you have a leg up on a lot of people out there. A lot of people out there think they should do something only if they don't suck. Far from it. Suck and be proud if sucking. And then maybe try more and suck less. Then print up bumper stickers that say "Try More, Suck Less." And live life with that mantra.
I think being humble is an exercise in knowing you suck at things. Maybe not compared to everyone you know, or even everyone they know. Maurice had this down pat. He was just a shit-storm on the bike for a lot of years. Even when he was the best, the absolute best, he was always modest because he knew there were other people out there better than him, faster than him. They just hadn't lined up next to him that day. And while he was fully aware that he did not suck in the races that we all do, compared to the big people he sucked just like everyone else.
If Kobe Bryant or Wayne Gretsky or Alberto Contador are reading this, then fine. You don't suck. But the rest of us, sure, we're just doing our thing trying to enjoy life, making it all fit together because we are not defined by the things we do not suck at. We're defined by the whole package.
And in the end, that's really all we have. Because when you add it all up, all the things that you probably suck at, you can come up with a life that doesn't suck. And that, my sucky readers, is what not sucking is all about.
PS. This doesn't mean you can't ride today. Get out there and deal with it.
PPS. If you have to ride in rush hour, do it in the morning. More accidents happen at night than in the morning because people are more anxious about going home than they are about going to work.
PPPS. You suck. I actually own this book.
Today I want to talk about sucking. We as a society have a negative connotation to this word, and in Jeff's post I think you see where it can be taken as a sort of negative lean. But it doesn't have to. I think it's ok to suck. I think you need to embrace the sucking. I think sucking is real, it's life.
Because, I think this. I think we all suck in pretty much everything we do. Everything.
So we suck compared to our peers? No. Compared to the best? Yes, we do. Always. I referenced this earlier, that I was bad at biking because I went 14 mph when I started. I remember the first century I ever did. I went 12.x mph. I sucked. I sucked the high hog of heaven and that's the plain truth of the matter.
But you know, that's ok. Because I was sucking less than myself of the previous year. And in the end, I think we really want to strive to suck less. But also in that same end, we still just all suck.
You play chess as a hobby? I bet you suck at it. Put you in front of a grand master, and I bet you lose in minutes and feel like a douche. You like to cook? You food is good, I enjoy eating it. But I bet it sucks compared to even the lowest level chef out there. Your job? I bet you suck at it too compared to the best people who do the same thing.
Yeah, we all suck. And I'm sure there are cases out there where someone reading this doesn't suck at something. But the vast majority of us suck at what we do as a living, as a hobby, in life. We suck at everything. There, that's about it.
But who cares? Do you know what Karpov said when asked if he had any other hobbies besides chess? He said stamp collecting and Marxism. Kasparov replied, "Nothing." You can maybe be the absolute best at something but that leaves you nothing else. Nothing, literally nothing, else.
I could go on like this for a while. But since I suck at writing and making a point, I'll just move on and try to poorly get to the overall idea of this. Nobody cares if you suck at something. In fact, the less you suck at 1 particular thing the more you probably suck at other things. Some of the most amazing CEOs suck royal balls at being husbands & fathers. Again, like I said, I suck at this so I digress.
Isn't life about just sucking less. Relative to the collective on this site, I maybe don't suck so much at biking. Relative to the people I race, maybe I suck a bit more. Or maybe a lot more. And on and on. Most of everything I do I just try to suck less than I did before. Life is a scale of Suck, try to get yourself as far from the Total Suck classification as you can. But know that when you wake up every day and go to bed at night, probably everything you do will be some effort in sucking at something, even if it is staying in bed. I bet you suck at that too.
The point is this. Sucking is not bad. Sucking is life. And this is ok. Knowing that if you try something and fail at it is perfectly acceptable means you have a leg up on a lot of people out there. A lot of people out there think they should do something only if they don't suck. Far from it. Suck and be proud if sucking. And then maybe try more and suck less. Then print up bumper stickers that say "Try More, Suck Less." And live life with that mantra.
I think being humble is an exercise in knowing you suck at things. Maybe not compared to everyone you know, or even everyone they know. Maurice had this down pat. He was just a shit-storm on the bike for a lot of years. Even when he was the best, the absolute best, he was always modest because he knew there were other people out there better than him, faster than him. They just hadn't lined up next to him that day. And while he was fully aware that he did not suck in the races that we all do, compared to the big people he sucked just like everyone else.
If Kobe Bryant or Wayne Gretsky or Alberto Contador are reading this, then fine. You don't suck. But the rest of us, sure, we're just doing our thing trying to enjoy life, making it all fit together because we are not defined by the things we do not suck at. We're defined by the whole package.
And in the end, that's really all we have. Because when you add it all up, all the things that you probably suck at, you can come up with a life that doesn't suck. And that, my sucky readers, is what not sucking is all about.
PS. This doesn't mean you can't ride today. Get out there and deal with it.
PPS. If you have to ride in rush hour, do it in the morning. More accidents happen at night than in the morning because people are more anxious about going home than they are about going to work.
PPPS. You suck. I actually own this book.
GratefulRider
Active Member
I don't think a person is a loser for not matching my effort. I think life throws curves and presents challenges. How we deal those challenges is what determines if a person is a loser or not.
The aspiring biker racer/cyclist that doesn't occasionally have the HTFU or take a " no excuses" attitude when faced with things like bad weather is a loser. (Bad weather is a pretty lame excuse for not fulfilling ambitions).
Regarding time/commitment: one could easily argue that anyone with or that takes the time to train for bike racing IS a loser. But that person, if remotely successful, has had to HTFU from time to time. So with regard to he HTFU thing, I'm referring more towards attitude and approach not at all touching on ability, other commitments, etc.
That's usually my theme...attitude not ability.
The aspiring biker racer/cyclist that doesn't occasionally have the HTFU or take a " no excuses" attitude when faced with things like bad weather is a loser. (Bad weather is a pretty lame excuse for not fulfilling ambitions).
Regarding time/commitment: one could easily argue that anyone with or that takes the time to train for bike racing IS a loser. But that person, if remotely successful, has had to HTFU from time to time. So with regard to he HTFU thing, I'm referring more towards attitude and approach not at all touching on ability, other commitments, etc.
That's usually my theme...attitude not ability.
rick81721
Lothar
Great read Norm. My only quibble would be that THIS is the definitive book (and author) on the topic. And yes I own this book (and it is very funny).
GratefulRider
Active Member
Mitch, this year at CP, when you were going blind, but kept pushing and turned a few more laps, what were you thinking about?
obliviously how much he sucks.
Mountain Bike Mike
Well-Known Member
Norm - My 3 year old wanted you to have this:
Wobbegong
Well-Known Member
I agree to an extent with your theory Norm, but I think you are confusing "suck" with "not as good as" to some extent.
Take your cooking example.... My grandma makes a bangin cake. Its no joke. To say "it sucks" because there are grand champion cake makers out there is an ill representation of grandmas bangin ass cake. I'd choke a kitten for a slice. It ain't no suck...
Sucking would be best represented in the "nailed it" baking post you put up a while ago. That was sucking.
I'm pretty good with a handgun. There MUCH better shooters in this world, but you sure as shit wouldn't want me shooting at you... I think you get my point.
Take your cooking example.... My grandma makes a bangin cake. Its no joke. To say "it sucks" because there are grand champion cake makers out there is an ill representation of grandmas bangin ass cake. I'd choke a kitten for a slice. It ain't no suck...
Sucking would be best represented in the "nailed it" baking post you put up a while ago. That was sucking.
I'm pretty good with a handgun. There MUCH better shooters in this world, but you sure as shit wouldn't want me shooting at you... I think you get my point.
ChrisRU
Well-Known Member
I prefer the point of view that we should always be reaching. If you aren't striving to better yourself in some way, you're really just standing still. Reaching beyond our comfort zones is how we grow and continuously improve.
Its a very similar argument, but without the negative connotations.
Its a very similar argument, but without the negative connotations.
Norm, you suck at timing. You need to post shit like this when it is 75 and sunny out, not 40 and raining. If you read this to the next generation most of them would shrivel up in the fetal position and die as we teach them that nobody sucks at anything and if they aren't good at it you have to kill them with kindness telling them how they tried. I am not for that and my blud type is not B-positive but your post today was the other extreme and was a bit much for even my negative light that I shine on things. I don't think everyone sucks at anything, but I get the someone is always better comparison.
So Nibali won the TDF this year. Does the rest of the podium suck? Do Froome and Contador suck because they dropped out because of broken bones. No. As with anything, there is a huge grey area here.
You have no idea how good her bangin cake is.
So Nibali won the TDF this year. Does the rest of the podium suck? Do Froome and Contador suck because they dropped out because of broken bones. No. As with anything, there is a huge grey area here.
You have no idea how good her bangin cake is.
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Mountain Bike Mike
Well-Known Member
THIS!!!!
However - I love using negative connotations to go along with my immature sarcastic punk ass bitch sense of humor. I believe if its funny, its ok but some people don't take it that way. F-Them!
Juggernaut
Master of the Metaphor
I must really SUCK at this whole reading thing, cuz I didn't perceive Norm's post as being particularly negative.....
That I wanted to be able to wear the shirt??
Jeff, as Im sure you know, you think of a lot of different things but mostly thoughts about keep going and don't quit no matter what. There were lots of points in the race at CP and W101 when I hit the wall and thought about stopping, all I thought about was to just keep pedaling. I can't right now remember who told me that or where I read it but it was so simple and has been working for me. Just keep pedaling and eventually you will finish.
I guess it's something in me but I just always go hard and give it all. I guess I have to make up for what I lack in natural talent by just giving more effort then the next guy and hope that it pays off. I always pride myself in giving that extra effort and I also appreciate it when I see others as well give it.
What keeps you going when you hit the wall Jeff?
And yes, that too.
GratefulRider
Active Member
Mitch, thanks. That's pretty much what I figured.
I take stock of my situation (do I need to eat, drink, puke, stand, let off the gas, etc) make whatever adjustments can be made and keep going. I know the pain of he race will eventually be replaced with a sense of accomplishment or pride. The pain of quitting sticks around.
I quit a 6 pack a few yrs ago. It haunts me.
I compete in a few races that I don't stand a chance in, I suck relative to j bishop and others (but I beat tinker twice this season). In those races I'm trying to do my best on that day. Ideally it's better than previous attempts but shit happens and it might not be. If I quit the race or quit giving 100%, I've failed. That's my outlook.
I take stock of my situation (do I need to eat, drink, puke, stand, let off the gas, etc) make whatever adjustments can be made and keep going. I know the pain of he race will eventually be replaced with a sense of accomplishment or pride. The pain of quitting sticks around.
I quit a 6 pack a few yrs ago. It haunts me.
I compete in a few races that I don't stand a chance in, I suck relative to j bishop and others (but I beat tinker twice this season). In those races I'm trying to do my best on that day. Ideally it's better than previous attempts but shit happens and it might not be. If I quit the race or quit giving 100%, I've failed. That's my outlook.
Pretty much the most enlightening thing you've probably ever said (or wrote ). Good stuff.