Karate Monkey
Well-Known Member
It's almost like they want to raise a nation of fatties.
And not the good kind.
And not the good kind.
sandy hook beach is closed to bikes
- Thread starter ktmrider
- Start date
Steve Vai
Endurance Guy: Tolerates most of us.
mwlikesbikes
Well-Known Member
Fear Of A Fat Planet! Fight the Power!!!
Holy nudists Jim you are one of them, lol...So do Fat Bikers.
solorider
Active Member
www.letsmove.gov
*Except on a bike
Federal, state and local government should be begging for more cyclists.
*Except on a bike
Federal, state and local government should be begging for more cyclists.
Hard to argue against protecting habitat. I can understand staying off the dunes on the backshore (most of which have been marked for years). However the foreshore is ok for walkers, so why not bikes? Pretty ironic that there are several areas near the Nike launch site that are full of construction remnants and debris (old fences, cables, planks of wood, plastic tubs of who-knows-what) and the NPS doesn't seem to give much thought to that. It's like a plover's ghetto. Great habitat
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Frank, thanks for digging into this.
. Frank, thanks for digging into this.
RobW
Well-Known Member
This is the response I got.
In accordance with 36 CFR 4.30 the use of bicycles is prohibited except on park roads, in parking areas and on routes designated for bicycle use. This is not a park policy but and agency policy aimed at protecting the natural resources including but not limited to the shore birds. AL
In accordance with 36 CFR 4.30 the use of bicycles is prohibited except on park roads, in parking areas and on routes designated for bicycle use. This is not a park policy but and agency policy aimed at protecting the natural resources including but not limited to the shore birds. AL
wonderturtle
Well-Known Member
Hard to argue against protecting habitat. I can understand staying off the dunes on the backshore (most of which have been marked for years). However the foreshore is ok for walkers, so why not bikes? Pretty ironic that there are several areas near the Nike launch site that are full of construction remnants and debris (old fences, cables, planks of wood, plastic tubs of who-knows-what) and the NPS doesn't seem to give much thought to that. It's like a plover's ghetto. Great habitat
Frank, thanks for digging into this.
the rule ("use of bicycles is prohibited except on park roads, in parking areas and on routes designated for bicycle use") makes a lot of sense - who can argue against bikes being restricted to areas designated for bike use in national parks? of course in most National Parks it is 100% expected and reasonable that they would want to keep bikes from riding all over the place (dont want mtber's riding over Old Faithful or doing wheelies on top of Mount Rushmore).
however, when applied to the BEACH at Sandy Hook, application of the rule is downright silly. if you can walk, jog, swim, fish, run around naked on the beach, why cant you ride a fat tired bike along the beach. no logical argument can be made that it is any more harmful to the wildlife. it makes absolutely no sense when applied to the situation.
I guess the question is: IS IT POSSIBLE TO CHANGE THE RULES TO DESIGNATE THE BEACH FOR BICYCLE USE? obviously, they would need to be limited to the same areas as walkers and probably should be limited in terms of time of year (eg, probably not permitted May-September).
change the designation of areas "designated for bike routes" at Sandy Hook and the application of the rule goes away. can that designation be changed at the local level?
@RobW - could you respond to the email and ask them who determines "designated bike routes" at Sandy Hook and would it be possible to change the designation to allow bikes on the beach September thru May (or perhaps October thru April to be more conservative).
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Frank
Sasquatch
Attached is a flow chart for 36 CFR 4.30.....I wonder if the super would be willing to communicate. I will reach out soon and see what can be done on a local level.
NPS-BikeUse-36CFR4.30-FlowChart_July2012.pdf
NPS-BikeUse-36CFR4.30-FlowChart_July2012.pdf
RobW
Well-Known Member
I think this is the best route. You represent the community of cyclists. There is more foot traffic than anything. The lack of garbage cans on federal land baffles me and now this. Yea sure trust people will take their trash and sh*tty wet diapers home with them. But no biking on the sand! let's hope they are willing to make acceptions to the rule, because Ya know... Bikes are made to handle all different types of terrain, not just paved paths and parking lots.
wonderturtle
Well-Known Member
that flow chart is extremely discouraging.
if they strictly follow that flow chart they will have to do an Environment Impact Statement (EIS) or Environmental Assessment (EA) in accordance with the national environmental policy act (NEPA)..... followed by additional bureaucratic actions....just to allow bikes to ride on the beach in January.
ugh.
good luck. looking at that flow chart, you'll need lots of it.
seems best route may be to see if the beach is somehow considered an "administrative road" (the staff DOES drive over it). far less bureacracy than if the beach is considered a "trail".
Ted Gormley
New Member
Hello! I just joined here, first post. I just got a fatbike and frequently ride in all parts of Gateway. I was recently told about the biking issues in Sandy Hook, and I did some research. While 36 CFR seems to prohibit cycling off marked roads in general, each park is allowed to alter the rules to suit their needs. I'm going to try to upload this picture, it's of the 2014 Gateway Compendium, which is their version of the rules, and taken directly from the NPS website. It specifically states there is no restriction on cycling in undeveloped areas, as long as no other existing rules are broken, such as entering marked closed areas. I think I may just keep biking on the beach there with a copy of these rules on me. It's been my experience that people hate bikes more than anything else
Ahhh I see you made it, Ted. Welcome. FYI, before you go any further, you need to pick an avatar or Management will chose one for you ;-)
(This is Eric)
Ted Gormley
New Member
Ted Gormley
New Member
Hey Eric! No problem, I'm on my phone right now I'll do it when I get home.
Also, section 7 as referenced above only pertains to motor vehicles, and is in a pamphlet they give you when you get the 4WD permit for Breezy Point.
Also, section 7 as referenced above only pertains to motor vehicles, and is in a pamphlet they give you when you get the 4WD permit for Breezy Point.
wonderturtle
Well-Known Member
Hate to say it but those rules follow the NPS rules and do NOT allow you to go off designated trails at sandy hook
Ted Gormley
New Member
It says right there bicycle use is allowed in undeveloped areas. Section 7 is broken up into items for each park. The section for Gateway mentions nothing about bicycles, only motor vehicles. If they wanted to set restrictions on bicycles in these areas it would say so in this section.
wonderturtle
Well-Known Member
I read it as follows: the areas where 4wd can drive in breezy point are open to bikes, but since there are no such areas at sandy hook, that exception doesn't apply at sandy hook.
The above is based on your description of section 7 - that it pertains to 4wd in breezy point.
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Ted Gormley
New Member
Section 7 is titled "Special Regulations" is broken down into subsections for each national park that requires them. The section for Gateway applies to all of Gateway.
For what it's worth I grew up in Rockaway Beach, and currently live in Staten Island. I have spent my entire life in every part of Gateway including Sandy Hook. Riis Park, Fort Tilden, Floyd Bennett Field, Great Kills, Miller Field, and Fort Wadsworth are almost literally covered in bikes most of the year, including winter, beaches included. I have never even heard of a problem with a bicycle anywhere. The Jamaica Bay Wildlife Refuge is closed to bikes and specifically says so.
So I read it as Gateway felt the need for a special regulation because off-road motorized vehicles are permitted on the one mile stretch of beach and need their own rules...
wonderturtle
Well-Known Member
Well I don't have section 7 in front of me so i am only going off your description of it. But from your description above I read it that bikes are allowed in gateway national seashore in the locations where 4wd are permitted.
From your description above it seems 4wd are permitted in a section of the Breezy point area of gateway national seashore so it seems this exception allows bikes on the beach in THAT area.
4wd, however, are NOT permitted on the beach at sandy hook so I read it that the exception you talk about (that allows bikes where 4wd are permitted) does NOT apply to sandy hook.
Hey, maybe I am wrong. But I suspect your plan to bring a print out of the rules is not gonna help you should a ranger chose to give you a ticket for riding on the beach at sandy hook.