Riding by the Numbers

pooriggy

Well-Known Member
Team MTBNJ Halter's
should i go back and try to do one more test just being fresh? i really dont know at this point in the year, would give me a nice starting point for next season . . . or i just run with what iv got)
Looking at previous ftp tests, your ftp is going up, because you are becoming more fit, this usually happens after a period of hard riding. Next season, after a winter of cheesy poofs and Gilligans Island re runs you will not be as fit. If you apply your ftp number from a week ago to do intervals in March 2019, you may be discouraged at results. Know this, when doing intervals, always work within a % range of ftp.

For example, in March when you do 4x5 minute intervals, you may be, 300, 290, 280, 275. In May, these numbers will go up, 315, 310, 305, 300.

The more experienced you become with doing intervals, the less dependent you will be on what your ftp is. This was my best racing season, I haven't done an ftp test in years, however, I know what good pwr numbers are for me when doing intervals. The hardest part is to motivate yourself to kill it when training and knowing when not to kill it.
 

Dave Taylor

Rex kwan Do
My own experience. When my fitness, and this usually aligns with my FTP, is the highest at the end of the summer, my ability to recover from attacks or harder efforts in a race is better.
But Brian can ride his face off so him up’ing his ftp is going to make him that much stronger in a race when he wants to throw down a dig. So his dyno sheet will thrown down a serious pass

This thread is good for people who are learning about the training / #s chase.

@BrianGT3 - Are you building a marketting portfolio for a training plan side biz?
What @Mountain Bike Mike said. Brian is already a good racer. The added fitness will only improve him as a racer. On the other hand w/kg is way more important than ftp. Consistency with your program is key like others said. I am one person that wants to make leaps and bounds each season. A little here and a little there is no fun. Be different, try different things, use that constructive criticism. Do things others say are stupid, they don’t know any better than you most of the time.Break the boundaries, don’t be a cookie cutter racer.
 

shrpshtr325

Infinite Source of Sarcasm
Team MTBNJ Halter's
Looking at previous ftp tests, your ftp is going up, because you are becoming more fit, this usually happens after a period of hard riding. Next season, after a winter of cheesy poofs and Gilligans Island re runs you will not be as fit. If you apply your ftp number from a week ago to do intervals in March 2019, you may be discouraged at results. Know this, when doing intervals, always work within a % range of ftp.

For example, in March when you do 4x5 minute intervals, you may be, 300, 290, 280, 275. In May, these numbers will go up, 315, 310, 305, 300.

The more experienced you become with doing intervals, the less dependent you will be on what your ftp is. This was my best racing season, I haven't done an ftp test in years, however, I know what good pwr numbers are for me when doing intervals. The hardest part is to motivate yourself to kill it when training and knowing when not to kill it.


you are correct, but it will give me something to work for, and hopefully (if i start training in say late feb/march timeframe) ill be able to crank out the same ftp as now by say May (maybe this is too long a stretch, i have no clue) and then i can build from there to raise it.
 

Pearl

THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING
This is a general statement, not something specific pointed at OP. Don’t twist things now.

What I’m saying is just making gains in a 20 minute test will not magically make you a faster racer. It means you’re better than the last time you tested going all out for 20 minutes.

IMO, there’s no magic w/kg number that means you’re cat 1, 2 blah blah.

So many variables exist, this is just one of them.
 

shrpshtr325

Infinite Source of Sarcasm
Team MTBNJ Halter's
This is a general statement, not something specific pointed at OP. Don’t twist things now.

What I’m saying is just making gains in a 20 minute test will not magically make you a faster racer. It means you’re better than the last time you tested going all out for 20 minutes.

IMO, there’s no magic w/kg number that means you’re cat 1, 2 blah blah.

So many variables exist, this is just one of them.


i agree with this, depending on your discipline different intervals will be important, FTP is a great training tool, but unless you race in a vacuum (Maybe TT??? not even sure) the power you make all out for an hour means nothing bc you wont do that in a race, you need to train to the intervals that are most usefull in your chosen discipline, in NJ mtn biking id argue it would be 5 and 10 min power (maybe even shorter intervals 2 or 3 min. . . , but im not nearly as experienced as some in this thread so dont take my opinion as gospel)
 

Mountain Bike Mike

Well-Known Member
I chalk Brian’s efforts and detailed recap as a very disciplined and methodical way of training to ultimately get stronger. Basically be able to be a pedalling monster

I like @pooriggy ’s last post about seasonal variations in power #s when doing intervals and what he eventually evolved to.. I was wondering how Brian will fair in early spring after feeling all this peekness now...
 

BrianGT3

Well-Known Member
i spent this year learning how to read a power meter as well, so im applying my thought process to how im approaching it to what you are sharing.

On the plus side you're improving. You're also consistent in the route that you're testing on. My question is what are you doing inbetween your FTP tests? What I'm getting at is that are you doing intervals? What Zone, what duration of time? Are you racing? All these are going to factor it your improvements. I'm also new to this, I may hustle and do another FTP test in 2 to 3 months and come out with a 5 - 10 w gain. We'll see
 

Santapez

Well-Known Member
Team MTBNJ Halter's
90/10 Split of Low Intensity/High Intensity seems to be working. 2+hr Zone 2 hours rides are working. Lifting in gym is working. Most importantly of them all, Rest! I took time off of the bike when I felt tired, listened to my body. Yes a FTP test isn’t the end all be all, but I metric to measure progress, I’m happy its all working thus far.

Just out of curiosity, can you post what types of workouts/how often and when you rest?

Like, how many times/hrs a week are you riding for that 90%? Then for the 10%, what are you doing?

And then how often are you resting? IE, 3 weeks ON, 1 week Off, etc?
 

shrpshtr325

Infinite Source of Sarcasm
Team MTBNJ Halter's
On the plus side you're improving. You're also consistent in the route that you're testing on. My question is what are you doing inbetween your FTP tests? What I'm getting at is that are you doing intervals? What Zone, what duration of time? Are you racing? All these are going to factor it your improvements. I'm also new to this, I may hustle and do another FTP test in 2 to 3 months and come out with a 5 - 10 w gain. We'll see


yea and to compound the less than anticipated gain, i kinda slacked off the training part after the BS50 :/ it is what it is at this point in the seasn.

iv been mostly doing HIIT with the occasional longer duration ride in there. I tend to go harder during the week, cram as much pain into the lunch rides as possible, and im sure this comes back to my comments earlier about training specific durations, my low duration power numbers are probably climbing faster than my ftp for the simple reason that i dont do many longer efforts at elevated intensity.
 

BrianGT3

Well-Known Member
Just out of curiosity, can you post what types of workouts/how often and when you rest?

Like, how many times/hrs a week are you riding for that 90%? Then for the 10%, what are you doing?

And then how often are you resting? IE, 3 weeks ON, 1 week Off, etc?

By the 90/10 split, from what I've researched thus far, you want 90% of your riding in the Zone 1 and 2 range. 10% in Zone 4/5. Apparently there is no gain from being in Zone 3. I'm not super strict with this stuff, it's a general formula I follow.

So lets say you have 8 hours of available time to ride per week, that would mean 7.2 hours you're in Zone 1/2. 40 Minutes in Zone 4/5.

Since initial FTP test, 8 hours ride time per week this is the usual for me on a monthly basis.

That would be two road rides per week lasting about 2 hours at Zone 1/2. At some point in week a 1.5 hour ride doing zone 4 intervals with Zone 1/2 recovery in between (example 2 sets of 4min of, 4min off zone 4 intervals)*, a 1 hour easy zone 1 recovery ride day after intervals, then maybe another 1.5 hour mountain bike fun ride, where you're going to get zone 4/5 on some hills and segments.

*substitute a race for intervals training

In a block of 3 - 4 weeks I try to either do more intense intervals increase duration or both. For example at the start going from a 2 hour road ride keeping in the Zone 1 - 2 range to a 2.5 hour road ride, holding at Zone 2 toward end of 3-4 week period.

As for breaks I listen to my body. After a race, or tough week I'm im feeling fatigued, body hurts, on a recovery ride my power is super low and heartrate high, I'm feeling irritable, those are all signs to either get off bike for a few days, or do short rides in the Zone 1 range. Rest up you'll get stronger after the break. Also sometimes breaks are beyond my control, a few times this year I've gotten sick, or had an absolutely insane week with my business and have to put out 15 hour days which limits the training.
 

BrianGT3

Well-Known Member
But Brian can ride his face off so him up’ing his ftp is going to make him that much stronger in a race when he wants to throw down a dig. So his dyno sheet will thrown down a serious pass

This thread is good for people who are learning about the training / #s chase.

@BrianGT3 - Are you building a marketting portfolio for a training plan side biz?

No plans, long term goals or ambitions for coaching or training, I've learned not to turn hobbies/sports you enjoy into professions. Takes the fun out of it.

But who know where I'll be 10 years from now! As of now when I'm doing something I like to know why I'm doing it.
 

BrianGT3

Well-Known Member
Cathedral Pine 6 HR

Back in July @pooriggy mentioned doing this one to me after Kittatinny Bulldog Rump race in the parking lot. Iggy signed us up for this race a month or two ago, sounded like a fun one to try and a good one to wrap up the 2018 season with. We were doing a 2 man relay race. I haven’t done a relay race since highschool. We sorta did a relay race in the BS 50, but we could run that one at the same time so it wasn’t a relay. On the car ride there Iggy filled me on on the course, the layout, how long he has been doing this one and the strategy that we would alternate laps. Also emphasized the importance getting to the front at start.

This race was interesting, in some ways I wasn’t even in race mode until I was at the start line. I also had my 2nd most epic crash of 2018 at this race not even 3 minutes till after start. I made a few rookie mistakes, but over the course of the day was able to regroup and finish strong. Good one to wrap up 2018 season with.

Lap 1 - The clusterf*ck

Around 260+ riders lined up at the start, apparently this year they decided to start everyone with a pace truck. The truck started off pretty quick (15+ mph) on an uphill. So even with pace truck it was a sprint start. I powered on along the left-hand side of the cycling herd to get up front close to behind pace truck. I needed to slot myself into a good position, goal was to be top 10 going into single track. The access road flattened out, the truck made a left turn off course so we could all enter a right-hand turn to another long straight. Up ahead I saw a nice clear path on the outside where I could lay down some power and get myself up with that front group.

Before I continue, I need you Imagine for a second, you’re doing a track stand on your bike. While doing this track stand, you don’t know is that someone has a rope tied to your front tire! Suddenly that person yank the rope and bike right out from under you! Result is getting layed out!

When you take a spill on a mountain bike there is a dismount, and then there is a crash. On a dismount, you generally see it coming, know its going to happen. It’s fairly acrobatic, entertaining for spectators, "roll with it." I have a few dismounts per year.

A crash though, a crash you don’t see it coming and just freaking eat it.

After truck turned, I saw that outside left clear road ahead, put down some power and my front tire must’ve hit some leaves and released traction. A release similar to hitting an ice patch, wet wood bridge, or finding a diagonal wet tree root hiding under leaves. That rope of front wheel analogy, ate it SO hard! Thankfully my right knee, elbow, shoulder and forearm cushioned the 19 mph impact on the asphalt. Slid a few feet on my hip and forearm. I was thankful for cold weather at this race, thermal pants and shirt contributed to reducing how much skin was torn up by asphalt. Slid to a stop, jumped to remount observing front wheel is pointing left and bars are pointing right. Jump back off my bike, wedge the front wheel in my legs and yank my handle bars straight. Out of my peripheral visions the pack is blowing by. I hop on and go full bore, possibly working my way up 60 spots till I enter the single track and have to settle for position.

I’m pretty frustrated, feeling like I messed up big time and let Iggy down and let myself down. The whole plan was to get up front, it was so important. I never bothered to consider the scenario that it may not happen and what to do if it does? All I knew it you don’t want to be mid pack. You’re stuck in this situation and it can hurt our results.

Hill 1 –

Okay I see that I can pass people here, but this will involve going toff trail. So I take the alternate hill climb line. Instantly I feel the dirt is quite a bit softer than trail, tire is spinning, I give it more gas to not come to a stop, I pick off 2 or 3 riders. Progress, then front wheel encounters downed saplings at a 45 degree angle hiding under leaves and front tire washes out. I hit ground and roll backwards down the hill I climbed. Up +3 positions now becomes down -5 positions. Hop on, regroup.

Hill 2 – I try same strategy, make up 2 positions. It worked!

More stuck in single track traffic.

Hill 3 – I try same strategy, make up 3 positions. Unfortunately, rider ahead of me also had some idea but suffers same fate at me on Hill #1, crashes in front of me knocking me off bike as I tried to pass him. +3 positions drops to +0 positions, I burned one or two candles on that climb with legs.

The hills took some energy out of the legs I could feel it. You have to be careful on these flat courses, they can be deceptive. Also I had to be mindful of that even if you’re mid pack, good chance most of the people are new racers and are all going that first lap hard. Also nobody wants you to pass.

I was caught in a bicycle train and feeling like I can hit these trails and higher speeds and run the corners harder. I stoppe following riders in front and took my own lines, which helps - but then I realize how slow I am going. At these speeds it all feels off to me. All the leaves on trail masking the off camber corners, roots and mud the lay underneath. Tires hit these and cause instant loss of grip. This combined with a few crashes already doesn’t do much for confidence.

I was able to make some passes, since people don’t really want to let you by, you sorta have to make a pass. I passed this one guy semi close and I could tell he was hell bent on passing me back. 15 minutes later I get super sideways over sniper root/muf and give him that opening and he takes it. I could see his helmet lift off his head with that smile. “I got that motherfucker from MTBNJ!!!”

Now I entered the acceptance stage, the frustration (aka ego) calms down and reality settles in. This is where you’re at for this lap. Deal with it. Maybe you can pass a few people if the opportunity opens up, but ride your ride and save your legs. We have 7 laps to go and I have 3 more to make it right. I settle into a holding pattern and just ride. Time to get acclimated to the trails and figure out where I am going. I notice back 1/3 of course and incredibly slick. I finished off lap 1 and Iggy goes out hard.

I finished off lap 1 and recollected myself. Hit lap time button on garmin, saw a (~51:35), shit. I put us way off pace. I check my phone and saw Iggy shot me a text check if I was okay after crash. I text him back with my updates on how lap 1 went.

Relay racing is weird. You’re racing with a team mate, but a not a team mate you can have a sit down and chat about how the lap or race went after running it. We’re alternating shifts out there with are break room chat. Text messages with updates are like work emails on a weekend. They’re out there when you’re not and can’t respond right away. You can’t talk to each other after a run and update on trail conditions or how lap went. It’s a head nod, I’m out and of course while, he goes out and hammers it.

Lap 2

This one was better, I get to stage 10 min before Iggy’s eta and pedal around a bit to warm my legs back up. I do some track stands and wheelies. I wanted to feel balanced on the bike, due to slick conditions there will be times where you have a two-wheel slide and have to have your weight centered and to be relaxed, the grip will come back, but on those nervous transitions, you have to be neutral and not put in any inputs when tires are temporarily letting go.

I see Iggy cross finish timing and he sends me off. It was nice because I entered the course and had the trails to myself for attempt #2. At this time we’re and hour and a half into this thing and the 260+ riders are well diluted in the 9 mile long course. First time of the day I settled into a pace and now could make mental notes to figure out the corners, hills, and flow of the 9 mile course. Three minutes into my out lap, I tried to take a B line around some tree roots on a punchy little climb. Front tire managed to find soft off camber dirt hiding under the leaves and instantly comes to a stop! This of course sent me into a quick superman over the bars. Ooops! Remount bike and on my way, chill out Brian! 4 crashes is enough for one day. Just stay on the trail, the leaves are hiding things you shouldn't ride over.

Keep that head up and eyes ahead, plan one or two corners ahead. The flow was coming back, focusing on the turns and terrain. I was happy to see that compared to lap 1, the leaves where being pushed out of the corners and I could see bare dirt! With more clarity it became easier to see the contours of the single track, spot off camber sections, wet dirt, dry grippy dirt and see those sniper roots that charge a heavy penalty to usable traction.

Lap 2 was making itself out to be significantly better. Concerning traffic, any riders there were encountered usually saw me and let me by or I could call out rider up and they would give me space to squeeze through.

The course was also beginning to dry out and I could hold more speed in the corners. Back 1/3 was still slick but not as bad as lap 1. I ran this lap pretty clean, a few bobbles on some slick turns. Strong finish, hit my lap timer and see a low (47:06) time. Okay doing better!
 
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BrianGT3

Well-Known Member
Lap 3

This was was run solid, course was even dryer once I got out. I had a better understanding of lines and made of more conscious effort to put my tires on that 2-3” of trail that had positive camber on the corners and avoid the tree roots and slick stuff. I hit the punchy climbs hard. Back 1/3 dried out significantly had berms built up so I maintained more momentum through this sector.

I found a good pace, which was key at Cathedral Pines. Here you’re constantly on the gas, there are not rest periods, its like a road ride. Maybe its also like CX? But I don’t race CX, wouldn't know. This course had some elevation in the form of punchy climbs. But these punchy climbs had no downhill after to stop pedaling and coast to recover. It’s a punchy climb that tapers off back into a flat, so you’re still on the gas. My legs were bitching a bit but I keep digging. Mentally I told myself it’s just 45 min, it’ll be over before you know it. This helped to dig deep and lay down smooth power.

Lap 3 was fun too! I think it’s important to have fun during races, having fun puts the mind into a mode of relaxation, and when you’re relaxed is when you’ll ride your best. Doing two wheel slides in corners and getting away with it is fun. With the slick corners in certain areas, it was pretty easy to go about doing this. I can’t think of a better way to go about learning bike control. I did a Scandinavian flick into a left right transition turn, felt pro AF haha.

Finished lap 4 strong with a few tiny mistakes. Ran my fastest lap of the day, at 46:35. After crossing start finish I send Iggy off and tail him for a bit with an update on how trails are shaping up and how I am doing.

Lap 4

Course was same conditions as lap 3, my goal was to run even faster and see If I could break into the 45’s. But the legs already had 24 miles and 2.4 hours of ride time in. The fight for a faster time would also be a fight against fatigue. They posted up a team time update after Iggy’s 2nd outing and I saw we were 3ish off of 2nd place, so maybe if I throw down a good one we can slot into 2nd?

I went full tilt this one, it was painful on some of those hills. I kept digging and pushed through to the finish. Ran corners hard and had some moments where I wondered if the bike would stick? Finished lap clean with minor mistakes on some corners that maybe took away a second or two. Unfortunately, I didn’t break my lap 3 time, I was back into the 47’s with a 47:10. I was gassed after this one. People talk to you and you’re semi delirious after! All I wanted to do was get some dry clothing on and warm up. Random person gave me a beer and it was delicious.

Due to time constraints I hit to pack up my car and make my way out not soon after finishing the race. It’s kind of a bummer, generally I like to hang after for awards and to chat with people. Had to get back home for dinner plans with another couple.

Some Take Aways

-Pre riding is always good, maybe if I scoped out the start more I could’ve avoided going down and pavement surfing wet leaves on race start. Maybe this would earned us a faster cumulative time overall by 3 minutes, inching us close to 2nd place? If I didn’t burn those matches lap 1…..

-You can keep going with “what ifs”, I made a few mistake this one. Learn from them.

-@pooriggy has been racing longer than you've been riding, he's a wealth of information

-Relay races are fun

-I got down to quick lap times as did @pooriggy. We hit 47’s, only other team to run faster was the 1st and 2nd place duo relay team, a few men in the Open Pro 6 hr class also hit those times.

-It's good to be mentally prepared for races. I really wasn't for this one. This can be a blessing and a curse for me. I'll have to delve into this one on another blog post at a later time. 4 years of MTB racing in late 90's early 2000's, 6 years motorcycle racing, 4 years working in professional motorsports on a team, I'm no stranger to racing, there are no pre race butteryflies or nervouses, but you have to be on point! I wasn't on this one at the start.

-Lap 3 I dropped into 46:35. This was in range of the times run 1st/2nd place team. These guys are open pro/cat1 cyclocross athletes. Like I said I never raced CX, but I’d imagine this course would favor a CX athlete. Cold, wet, miserable, slick. 1st place rider even broke at 45min time with a 44:59! This course was full gas, I felt like I could keep the power on and go through. Being close to their times makes me feel good, training is working. My focus has been on power delivery with training, this is where it counts. I think if the course had rocks and gnar that would play into my favor.

Now to lay low this week, 2 days post race my shoulder is still feeling that fall and legs the efforts put out. Plan is to take some time off of the bike and build the foundation for next season!
 
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