Please read: it is NOT ok
- Thread starter jdog
- Start date
I think at that point ignorance is no longer an excuse, and that opens up public shaming.
Not that it will help necessarily, but it will give us #content.
Pearl
THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING
You would chain it both ends of the lot, just as easy as the others!
I know a guy that can supply a good deal on metal signs if you know a chain/cable guy.
bigtwin100
Active Member
Not a question of who wins and no need for sarcasm. Why are you going there. Im out. Obviously cannot discuss anything else but what you want. Carry on. Good luck with those signs.ahhhh i see i am wrong, you win @bigtwin100, i thought we were having a good discussion about the signs i was upset to be getting away from it.
I heard they are fining folks at Nox for riding muddy trails- the distinction as I think those trails are considered mountain bike trails not multi use (I could be wrong). I see hikers on there all the time but wonder if they are technically "purpose built" and can be managed as such. I think the mud meter, public shaming/guilt approach could be a good first step (wont solve the issue completely) but it would "reduce the abuse" (how is that for a motto?) somewhat and that may we worth the effort.
IF the mud meter got established, who would ultimately be responsible for setting it? I assume Park staff but is that a responsibility they would be open to taking on themselves? It would have broader implications beyond bikers- horses also chew up the terrain in muddy conditions.
IF the mud meter got established, who would ultimately be responsible for setting it? I assume Park staff but is that a responsibility they would be open to taking on themselves? It would have broader implications beyond bikers- horses also chew up the terrain in muddy conditions.
Fatduke
Active Member
Lots of great ideas here for signs at the trails. How about starting by featuring the anti-mud riding signage in (front of) some bike shops? This would hopefully have the double benefit of alerting riders to the issue who may simply not have thought about it before, and broadcasting to the non-riding community that we are actively fighting the problem.
Sven Migot
Well-Known Member
It seems that the instructions on the muddy meter suggests the honor system. Trail users coming off the trail are asked to set it based on what they saw. I think. Whether or not that works here is another story.
Like the "reduce the abuse" slogan.
Juggernaut
Master of the Metaphor
Friends don't let friends go mudd'n.
Sven Migot
Well-Known Member
Your mudder doesn't work here!
Kaleidopete
Well-Known Member
Don't be a Mudder fudder
Ian F
Well-Known Member
It's hard to overstate this. The simple fact is most riders are not on forums, don't really think about how much work has gone into these trails, and simply aren't going to think about it. Some may have driven some distance to ride there and they simply aren't going to say, "Oh... muddy trails... bummer... I guess I'll go home." Good luck with that.
I'm sure Nox has a bit of that as well, although I get the impression the network there is a little more policed. Of the handful of times I've ridden there, only once or twice have we not come across the trail stewards doing work. I understand that much like how jdog did work at 6MR when the trails are wet, so do the Nox guys. They are probably there today. In the rain.
Signage will help, but it's going to be a process that will take time. If anything, the sign should direct people to a website to say whether or not the trails are good to ride in the future. The Nox crew use a dedicated site as well as Facebook. Directing folks to this forum may not work. I know people that simply will NOT use forums. And you won't convince them otherwise.
SSmtbr
Well-Known Member
I was interested in this a couple of years ago as it seemed to run into a dead-end with my search and haven't run into any TAs out on the trails up north. Is this still functioning or can be functional again? It seems like most of us here are prime candidates as we frequent trails and know the trail networks we ride on regularly to help out riders who are unaware of JORBA or the forums here. Throw in the added possibility of appearing to be more "official" like a JORBA TA jersey and maybe the masses will take our education more seriously than just a regular rider preaching to them? Of course during muddy conditions we'd have to take a different approach as you don't want give the perception that JORBA TAs are riding the muddy trails while they're telling everyone else to go ride the road or go home.
I used to live near Brown County State Park (IMBA epic Hall of Fame trail network) in Indiana and at the trailheads they would have signs posted at every trailhead right at the entrance so you'd have to ride around the sign to enter the trails mentioning HMBA's (Indiana's JORBA equivalent) trail maintenance efforts, how riding muddy trails offsets those efforts and jeopardizes the continued access to those trails, and would post a colored flag like beaches (red, yellow, green) depending on conditions for the day. TAs could be trained on a standard of rating the trails and hang flags or change the mud meter accordingly.
Sven Migot
Well-Known Member
They use flags at Gurney Lane Bike Park (near Lake George NY). However, I don't see anything about what the flags mean.
giff06
Well-Known Member
It seems they are reasonably sucessful at White Clay and Nockamixon with closing the trails under certain conditions. Someone with JORBA must have a contact within one of these 2 places to find out who makes the determination to close the trails and how it is administered. That way it could be presented to our park systems with a plan on what/how to get it done and tweak it from there. Just my 2 cents.
Ian F
Well-Known Member
I do (for the entire loop rather than any one section), but more in competition with myself than anything else - as a gauge of my fitness at a given point during the season. That said, getting upset about it on open trails is like street racing on public roads: stupid.
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A mud meter really won't work here. As we have all seen, it can be perfect in the early hours of the day and simply a mudfest 2 hrs later.
The education of the masses here is the intent. We don't intend to close the trails on any particular day as the various other user groups would be locked out as well and they would not be pleased.
The intention here is to come up with signage that shows that it isn't cool to zoom past other users or to ride when leaving a rut behind you.
giff06
Well-Known Member
After recently visiting quite a few places to ride in the Southeast part of the country, people in general seem to be much more conscious of the other trail users and being sure that they do not affect others enjoyment while enjoying the trails themselves. I'm sure this has to do with population density and attitude in general. I've commented that I will need to relearn to drive in NJ upon returning more than once. We seem to be much more self absorbed. Sometimes we are our own worst enemy. The only signage I could think of is - Please observe common courtesy and yeild to other trail users. Does that really need to be said?
Disclaimer: This is just a casual observation and not pointed at any particular individual or group.
Disclaimer: This is just a casual observation and not pointed at any particular individual or group.
Frank
Sasquatch
Truth
Pearl
THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING
Sorry to bump this, but I stopped during my ride to take this photo last weekend and I wanted to just show how they close the trails down here. The trail is open, and when closed it's just swung back, and latched onto the post on the other side. Hikers could still hike, but bikers would be tough to ignore.
