Operation of Jungle Habitat for mountain biking recreational and events services.

pooriggy

Well-Known Member
Team MTBNJ Halter's
Well I can't blame the state for trying to seek revenue from parks, this will ultimately keep our taxes down. The Christie Admin is looking at every possible opportunity to raise funds and operate within the guidelines set forth in parklands and greenacres sites. If someone is willing to lease Jungle for 10 yrs at $12,000/yr + a cut of the profits so people can mountain bike, the state would be stupid not to take that money...but who would be dumb enough to sign that lease?
The state is going through the motions because it has too, it does not mean it will happen. We as users of Jungle trails need to support Jorba and let the state know we want the trails to remain open to public use.
 

Patrick

Overthinking the draft from the basement already
Staff member
I guess most mountain bikers have not been to kingdom trails And paid $15 to ride in heaven .
What he said. The state is trying to get blood from a stone. Why would you pay to ride here when you can go 5 minutes down the road and ride Waywayanda or Ringwood.

these are excellent points - what you want is free trail access (with your jorba membership)
paying transients/travelers - to support your habit. it is really a parking fee, rather than a trail fee???
something you would pay for (ie a tubing hill with a lift) - there are north facing hills there, it could happen.

so someone says "hi - i'll lease you huge tracts of land for $1000 a month" - don't worry about the curtains.

lift access isn't a bad idea - what if it was scheduled bus/cat instead ?
tow rope/puma for snowboard runs?

if you think of it in terms of income per hour, you need to make 1080 per month, 100 billable hours , that is about $11 per hour -
hell, if you charges nothing, and got a crowd, you'd make that off food vendor license.
 

MadisonDan

Well-Known Member
Team MTBNJ Halter's
these are excellent points - what you want is free trail access (with your jorba membership)
paying transients/travelers - to support your habit. it is really a parking fee, rather than a trail fee???
something you would pay for (ie a tubing hill with a lift) - there are north facing hills there, it could happen.

so someone says "hi - i'll lease you huge tracts of land for $1000 a month" - don't worry about the curtains.

lift access isn't a bad idea - what if it was scheduled bus/cat instead ?
tow rope/puma for snowboard runs?

if you think of it in terms of income per hour, you need to make 1080 per month, 100 billable hours , that is about $11 per hour -
hell, if you charges nothing, and got a crowd, you'd make that off food vendor license.

u sew smrt :D
 
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rlb

Well-Known Member
Well I can't blame the state for trying to seek revenue from parks, this will ultimately keep our taxes down.

Doubt it, when was the last time we (the average person) got a real tax break? Changing the price of my pack of gum from $1.07 to $1.06625 does not count. The state shits away the money the take from us now, there's no way this makes any dent in the overall picture. We're not going to see real tax change around here until something like this becomes a reality.

I can see the benefits of privatization (as we know how inept the state government is at running most things) but I also worry about things like liability insurance dumbing down the trails, etc. and a focus on profit over user experience, or crap like this.
 

Norm

Mayor McCheese
Team MTBNJ Halter's
I am sure that when the idea of KT was being discussed, there was a similar sentiment about making money off what was otherwise free. You may or may not like it, but I think the model there is a good one. The quality of trails, the upkeep, the marking, the maps - all top notch. With good reason, all aspects are better there than here.

I understand the idea that the state would try to keep bleeding the stone. I have no answer for that. In fact, it would be the 1 concrete thing that would prevent me from wanting to get involved in any respect. If someone made it work at JH, would it only be a matter of time before the state wanted to charge across the state for all park access? IDK, but I would think that's a legit scenario.

Of course that's all based on the somewhat fairy tale premise that someone could make pay-to-play profitable at JH, or in NJ for that matter.
 

pooriggy

Well-Known Member
Team MTBNJ Halter's
Doubt it, when was the last time we (the average person) got a real tax break?

While I do agree that government is good at spending money they do strive to be self sustaining when they can. Revenue generated in a park would go into a trust which would be earmarked for capital expenditures, so when they need a new storage barn for tractors it would come out of the trust fund. As a tax payer you will not get money back, at best it will slow down the rise in taxes.

Also taxing legal Marijuana brings in money on the front end but the fall out on the back end would require more money then you take in. As Americans we already have enough legal vices that people can't handle, we don't need to introduce another. Those that want to smoke know how to get it, we don't need to enable irresponsible people.

and with that this thread will now derail.
 

ktmrider

Well-Known Member
Colorado sold 128 million in August in weed , its a record . what would be the fall out on the backside ?
 

trailhead

JORBA: Wildcat/Splitrock
JORBA.ORG
While I do agree that government is good at spending money they do strive to be self sustaining when they can. Revenue generated in a park would go into a trust which would be earmarked for capital expenditures, so when they need a new storage barn for tractors it would come out of the trust fund. As a tax payer you will not get money back, at best it will slow down the rise in taxes.

Ideally, but there is a long history now of the Governor diverting funds from the intended use to other areas or pockets. The NJ 911 system as an example.
 

rlb

Well-Known Member
Ideally, but there is a long history now of the Governor diverting funds from the intended use to other areas or pockets. The NJ 911 system as an example.

I don't have the facts in front of me, but wasn't that a big part of the Transportation Trust Fund issue (diversion of the existing gas tax)?
 

rlb

Well-Known Member
and with that this thread will now derail.

Agreed, maybe one of the mods should peel this off as a separate discussion?

Unemployment, mental health issues, welfare, corrections, and an unproductive society. Some people can handle weed but a lot can't.

Can't say I agree with any of this. I think alcohol and/or prescription narcotics play a much larger role in these types of problems. Also think about the impact of redirecting police resources used for arresting people with an ounce of weed.
 

ktmrider

Well-Known Member
Yes had coffee last night waiting for my laundry , didn't see what you witnessed , but will put my special glasses on and maybe they will appear .
 

JimN

Captain Wildcat
Team MTBNJ Halter's
Also JH in NJ is not a KT heaven.

True, but with some work, Jungle + Ringwood + Sterling + Wawayanda could be way betterer than Kingdom. I would be cool with paying to ride NJ trails, as long as the money goes to trail stewardship, and as long as I could pay one fee for all parks. I feel like that's no different than my annual Jorba donation.
 

extremedave

Well-Known Member
Team MTBNJ Halter's
Jim said what I was thinking only better. For example the user fees at the Mohonk Preserve seem like money well spent. The area is stunning, clean and I like the idea someone is paid to look after the place. That might be private land tho?
 

rlb

Well-Known Member
Is Kingdom set up the same way? Is it public land leased to a private company for O&M? Or is it a JORBA type organization that runs the trails? If it's the latter there's really not much comparison to what the DEP is looking to do here.

Edit: answered my own question in 2 seconds. A KT experience is not what we're going to get with this RFP.
 

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