I’m out guys. Norm doesn’t like me and I can’t change that.

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Patrick

Overthinking the draft from the basement already
Staff member
What did I just read? To be honest Pat @fidodie and I say this with all love, I think you have led to some of the falling out of this site. While I think you mean well, you may go too far sometimes with the demasculization. It has taken some (a lot) of the fun away. While it is noble you try to include everyone I think a bi-product has been the isolating and punishing of the sites base audience/participants. And while people may complain to @Norm many who remember me from the site years ago have asked “what the f**** is going on with the site”

While I think you (@fidodie) mean well it tends to be your way or the highway. You may be a bit too invested. Do you have site ownership now? Maybe that would be a different story.

@Norm, all love. Thank you for the kind words. While I do not always see eye to eye with you I respect you and what you have created (and continue to maintain) I also understand we all live different lives outside of the bikes. I can be a douche, but I am dead honest, I will not talk behind anyone’s back (I will say it to your face (and be more than happy to post it here) and am more than willing to throw money, time or sweat labor to whatever this community needs.

is this stemming from the back-and-forth you were having with @mattybfat, when the OP requested that his thread be closed?
you two could go at it all day, it was the venue, not the fight. in hindsight, i probably shouldn't have made the last post in that thread,
as that was judgment - when executing the wishes of the OP. my bad on that one.

And i specifically listen to what you say, and not the baiting tone (you called it being a douche, which is misogynistic, that term is depricated.)
Stated my case with BIYF, saw that the name meant something to many people, and deferred.
I found the digs in the other threads humorous, and i have been playing along, cause yeah. they are micro-aggressive in the new terms, but i'm not thin skinned.
i didn't complain, if that is on the table. Norm and I did chat about it tho.

Apparently, others don't see it that way. If the number of complaints are rising, and that is the only measuring stick, then there is reason for @Norm to investigate - no need to speak for him.

what is intolerable is anything that is degrading to a class of people. Or attacks a specific person that is doing the best they can to satisfy a group of people
(say a race organizer that has to choose a date or class start time or length of race) - That is the point, state disapproval to the person. just like you just did to me. #respect

what the site was, is not relevant. If it will exist into the future, the question is, what will the site become?

I have no ownership - no benefit other than being part of the community. I can close/open/edit posts & threads. Also have access to the underlying stuff.
I have altered only a couple tag lines of people with whom i ride. never at someone's request for another...

on the other call-out here, do people think @Norm makes $$ from the site? or team mtbnj.com?
I don't think it is unreasonable to lay it out. My understanding is that is it was @bonefishjake's baby a long time ago.
 

Johnny Utah

Well-Known Member
is this stemming from the back-and-forth you were having with @mattybfat, when the OP requested that his thread be closed?
you two could go at it all day, it was the venue, not the fight. in hindsight, i probably shouldn't have made the last post in that thread,
as that was judgment - when executing the wishes of the OP. my bad on that one.

And i specifically listen to what you say, and not the baiting tone (you called it being a douche, which is misogynistic, that term is depricated.)
Stated my case with BIYF, saw that the name meant something to many people, and deferred.
I found the digs in the other threads humorous, and i have been playing along, cause yeah. they are micro-aggressive in the new terms, but i'm not thin skinned.
i didn't complain, if that is on the table. Norm and I did chat about it tho.

Apparently, others don't see it that way. If the number of complaints are rising, and that is the only measuring stick, then there is reason for @Norm to investigate - no need to speak for him.

what is intolerable is anything that is degrading to a class of people. Or attacks a specific person that is doing the best they can to satisfy a group of people
(say a race organizer that has to choose a date or class start time or length of race) - That is the point, state disapproval to the person. just like you just did to me. #respect

what the site was, is not relevant. If it will exist into the future, the question is, what will the site become?

I have no ownership - no benefit other than being part of the community. I can close/open/edit posts & threads. Also have access to the underlying stuff.
I have altered only a couple tag lines of people with whom i ride. never at someone's request for another...

on the other call-out here, do people think @Norm makes $$ from the site? or team mtbnj.com?
I don't think it is unreasonable to lay it out. My understanding is that is it was @bonefishjake's baby a long time ago.
I think you are deflecting the tone by asking if @Norm makes cash from this site. It’s none of our business. Not sure it is your place to put those questions out there. Then again not my business. But you do seem to be trying to drum up site activity on the regular....what is the deal with that?

That being said, this has nothing to do with the @mattybfat thread. Frankly, I could care less about that and I think it is a byproduct of what this site has become: People that don’t ride bikes throwing tons of opinions out there about riding bikes.

As for the BIYF....remove yourself from this for a second. @rick81721 and myself merely offered what people wanted. It seems to be successful. 60+ threads in after three weeks?

I would repeat what I said before, but I think you are over thinking the simplicity of a cycling thread.

No one is discriminating or hasselling a class of people, stop making a mountain out of a molehill.

As for any issues you and I may have from
Posting, that was years ago.....the same time stopped moderating the buy sell like I had for years because cause you wanted to come over the top of what I modded upon recieving your authority here (tool move). BTW...don’t freak out: I’m still a moderator. I have a feeling you may want to change that.

The fact that you had to come over the top of the back house is a little telling, especially if you have no ownership/stake in the site.
 

stb222

Love Drunk
Jerk Squad
what is intolerable is anything that is degrading to a class of people.

what the site was, is not relevant. If it will exist into the future, the question is, what will the site become?
.
Where is the line with a class of people? Indoor cyclist are a class? Women, men? A specific race category? I think everyone fits into a “class”, hence one has to speak in general terms? Always? I guess we can’t use the quote functionality anymore, plesse dismantle it.

Since when does history not have relevance? A lot of people live in the things they used to be able to do. I don’t think I am one of those people, but I know damn well the experiences I have had, my history, sure as shit has a part in who I will become. Yes, the “it used to be this way; we always did it this way” can lead to no progress but saying something is irrelevant?
 

Tim

aka sptimmy43
Wow. As a newcomer to this site reading this has been...interesting. I am not sure who is complaining to the site owner or mods about other members' posts, but geez, get some thicker skin. In my personal opinion this site is pretty civil. I have seen a couple instances where discipline was administered and it was in relation to straight up racism. I can't say I have a problem with that.

This site has a core group of users, most of whom I have not met. For that reason I stay more guarded and PC. Even though I rarely contribute to them, I enjoy the edgier posts. I feel that society in general would be better off if we were all more honest with each other, even if it's a bit confrontational. Call it being a douche, or what you will but if you aren't being a racist, sexist, or some other ist then I see no problem with it.

I only met Dave once so I don't know him. I respect him and his riding and talent. I'm not sure what the point of starting this thread was.
 

Paul H

Fearless OOS Poser
I'm not sure what the point of starting this thread was.
I wanted to ask the same question genuinely but didn't want ppl to interpret it the wrong way.

The following, I am not commenting specifically to this thread but just my 2 cents here about how I think we should treat each other.
Internet or whatever, there is a real person behind that screen. They say respect is earned but I think it should be given until lost.
Much easier to be civil and respectful online. You have an opportunity to read what you wrote and think about it before you hit that button.

Carry on and wish all of you happy riding today! :)
 

rick81721

Lothar
Allow me to provide my perspective since I have implicated in this thread to varying degrees. I have posted this before but it bears repeating - I come from another online community (been a member for over 25 years) where the culture includes ball-busting. Everyone dishes it, everyone takes it, no one takes it seriously nor do they cry to Mark (the equivalent of Norm here). So when I specifically busted balls about the one aspect of zwift riding that I consider "fake riding" - the unrealistic average speeds, and it gets characterized as "passive aggressive", I shake my head. Especially when someone else gets their board named changed from Dave to Dumbo and it's "Haha just a joke". And then especially in light of the fact that a certain "He-who's-name-shall-never-be-spoken" (GTLUKE) maliciously attacked me for years on this site with impunity, well at least until he went too far with someone else and got shit-canned. I never complained to Norm about his behavior, just felt sorry for him and ignored him, yet he continued to post unprovoked attacks. Duly noted.

Anywho, that's all water under the bridge. I see that joking about zwift is offensive to some people so I've stopped posting in the other biyf thread. May we continue with biyf pax romana!
 

goldsbar

Well-Known Member
So when I specifically busted balls about the one aspect of zwift riding that I consider "fake riding" - the unrealistic average speeds, and it gets characterized as "passive aggressive", I shake my head.

But that type of example is unequivocally true and should get posted, otherwise there's nothing to talk about. I'm a Zwift fanboy, but riding at 20-21 mph on a flat road for minutes with no one else around while putting out 175 watts...no way that happens IRL! I like seeing that type of criticism even for something I'm a fan of.
 

serviceguy

Well-Known Member
Allow me to provide my perspective since I have implicated in this thread to varying degrees. I have posted this before but it bears repeating - I come from another online community (been a member for over 25 years) where the culture includes ball-busting. Everyone dishes it, everyone takes it, no one takes it seriously nor do they cry to Mark (the equivalent of Norm here). So when I specifically busted balls about the one aspect of zwift riding that I consider "fake riding" - the unrealistic average speeds, and it gets characterized as "passive aggressive", I shake my head. Especially when someone else gets their board named changed from Dave to Dumbo and it's "Haha just a joke". And then especially in light of the fact that a certain "He-who's-name-shall-never-be-spoken" (GTLUKE) maliciously attacked me for years on this site with impunity, well at least until he went too far with someone else and got shit-canned. I never complained to Norm about his behavior, just felt sorry for him and ignored him, yet he continued to post unprovoked attacks. Duly noted.

Anywho, that's all water under the bridge. I see that joking about zwift is offensive to some people so I've stopped posting in the other biyf thread. May we continue with biyf pax romana!

Wow, who knew there was so much drama brewing under the melliflous, sugar coated and coconut powder sprinkled world of mtbnj.com...like life wasn’t throwing enough curveballs at us already! Right on!

For some reason I always end up missing on the drama when it happens so I don’t really understand most of what is said in this thread (other than I don’t think I will be able to get my retro frame welded by Dave...).

I’ll just say that it would be great if brain use was conditioned to passing a periodic exam and certified by a license! And no, I don’t think I would pass!
 

Norm

Mayor McCheese
Team MTBNJ Halter's
Since I think Rick may have put me on ignore, I'm not sure he will see this post but I will respond anyway. When I search the word "fake" by Rick, the result list is 4 pages long. Now, I'm sure that not every one of those uses of the word is intended in this whole "busting balls" manner but let me make this distinction:

1. Using here or there? Busting balls.
2. 4 pages of it? Trolling.

That's my assessment. A lot of people I know will agree with that. Rick's posting manner sometimes goes from funny to "haha ok it's old" to "you're being obnoxious" which is why I called him out on it. That and people have specifically said something to me about it, about how Rick has become obnoxious and beyond that, many of the posts seem to be intended to just cause arguments. Again, here and there, it's ok. But if there's a pattern of trolling for arguments, I think that's not ok. Full confession: I do not read enough of anyone's posts to say there is, or is not, a pattern. So I cannot say if I agree or not but like I said before, I thought Rick's posts were detracting so much from my enjoyment of the board that I blocked him for a while. This coming from someone who has actually defended Rick to other people because I think he's a nice guy IRL.

Another point of clarification. My changing Dave's name to Dumbo is/was my last ditch effort to get through to him that being an asshole online is not ok on this site as long as I am running it. Repeated conversations about it have gone ignored. It is not a "haha it's a joke" - in fact, it is anything but a joke. It is clear that nothing I do or say gets through to Dave. Maybe I finally got his attention. But I won't hold my breath. You can argue that I could have gone about it a different way. But let me ask you how well it would have gone over had I put him in the penalty box for a week? I can assure you that Facebook would be loaded with MTBNJ/Norm hate right now. It wouldn't have gone any better. Full confession #2: I am totally at a loss as to how to communicate with the guy. Fuck it. I give up. I don't get paid for this. See the last sentence in this post for clarification.

We're a pretty big collection of people and we're going to have personality conflicts. Honestly this is nothing compared to the avatar wars, nor the original winter shoes threads. Those were nothing short of a bloodbath of badness, when moderators were making each other's avatars porn images. This was when I was just an individual contributor. Let's just say that we have come a long, long way since then. But the point being, we're a very diverse set of people and we're just not all gonna get along. This is just the way it is so we gotta embrace that. I do what I can to be as fair as I can but like I said, I don't/can't read everything and I am just a guy with a real life that does what he can. Sue me if I ain't perfect.

One last point: LOL at making money on the site.
 

thegock

Well-Known Member
Allow me to provide my perspective since I have implicated in this thread to varying degrees. I have posted this before but it bears repeating - I come from another online community (been a member for over 25 years) where the culture includes ball-busting. Everyone dishes it, everyone takes it, no one takes it seriously nor do they cry to Mark (the equivalent of Norm here). So when I specifically busted balls about the one aspect of zwift riding that I consider "fake riding" - the unrealistic average speeds, and it gets characterized as "passive aggressive", I shake my head. Especially when someone else gets their board named changed from Dave to Dumbo and it's "Haha just a joke". And then especially in light of the fact that a certain "He-who's-name-shall-never-be-spoken" (GTLUKE) maliciously attacked me for years on this site with impunity, well at least until he went too far with someone else and got shit-canned. I never complained to Norm about his behavior, just felt sorry for him and ignored him, yet he continued to post unprovoked attacks. Duly noted.

Anywho, that's all water under the bridge. I see that joking about zwift is offensive to some people so I've stopped posting in the other biyf thread. May we continue with biyf pax romana!

FUCK YOU!.jpg
 
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