How Quickly will mwlikeseBikes be Banned on Trails in our Area?

Interesting

UCI bans licensed riders from competing in motorcycle federation's e-MTB race calendar
https://www.bikeradar.com/us/mtb/ne...cyclisme-electric-mountain-bike-racing-53857/


I was more interested in understanding what e-bike is going to be exactly.....I found this

GNCC Ebike racing rules

If you dont know already...GNCC is the sanctioning body for off road racing in the US...as in dirt bike enduros and hare scrambles, etc...So looks like they are holding the races as part of GNCC events...

The AMSOIL Grand National Cross Country Series (GNCC) presented by Specialized, an AMA National Championship, is excited to announce the addition of the Specialized Turbo eMTB GNCC National Championship for the 2019 season

Specialized Turbo eMTB GNCC National Championship schedule:


So it made me wonder what these events might look like.....I have done moto hare scrambles before and while they are basically dirt bike versions of mtb XC races....Bc of the fact the courses are ridden by dirtbikes, they are typically totally destroyed in a lap or two...Like nothing I would want to ride a bicycle on. I found this video and it looks like the same course the moto guys would use....looks very similar to what I raced on at field of dreams back in the fall (less mud). Certainly doesnt look any less intense than a regular XC race judging by his HR.

 
Having now owned an eMTB for a month and put about 200 miles on it, I feel I'm a bit more qualified to comment on this banning B.S. than some of the panicked idiots that have never even seen one in person, let alone understand how they work.

First off, stop with the motorcycle comparison! It couldnt be further from reality. Yes it has two wheels and a motor but its absolutely nothing like a dirtbike. I know, Ive also ridden and raced enduro dirtbikes for 30 years and have been mountain biking just as long. Its a bicycle, it rides like a bicycle, you have to pedal it like a bicycle and it handles like a bicycle. Theres no Throttle, its just a pedaling amplifier! Now, bikes that are unrestricted, have throttles and produce crazy power are definitely electric motorcycles and should not be lumped in with legit eMTBs.

Second, they dont cause any additional trail damage. Sure they weigh up to 50lbs or so but do you mean to tell me that anyone that weighs 20lbs more than you shouldnt be riding because the extra weight damages trails? You need to look at total weight of rider plus bike plus gear. These are heavier but it makes no difference. In fact the extra weight gives you better traction which results in less wheel slip and therefore less damage to trail surface. The motors do not produce enough power all at once to roost from the rear wheel so overall, I have noticed zero difference to the trail while riding with normal pedal bikes

Third, trail speed causing conflicts. The eMTBs I'm talking about are pedal assist only and are limited to 20mph assistance. Yes you can pedal faster if you have the legs but the motor calls it quits as soon as you near the 20mph limit. On downhills, this means overall about the same speed as any capable trail or enduro bike. In fact I would say that if you are pedaling past 20mph you will be faster on a regular bike because its lighter and accelerates faster. I have proven this by comparing my Strava times. On flats, you can def maintain a faster pace but you are still limited to your own riding capabilities. A really strong rider wont be far behind you. On climbs is where things get interesting. Its possible to double your normal speed on a flowing climb. The technical climbs wont be much faster but you will feel way better at the top. lol The thing is, aside from a bike park, all trails are 2 way which means that trail speeds will still be way faster coming down than climbing on an ebike. Overall, conflicts with other trail users wont change with ebikes, it still takes a responsible rider to not blast into blind turns where hikers could be. Downhill speed and control will remain the issue.

Fourth- Noise. This is a non issue, if youre more than a few feet away, you cant hear them.

Fifth- The Strava conflict. I honestly see this as being the main reason for the fear/hatred/jealousy of ebikes. Ive been saving my rides as a standard ride just to compare my times, I then switch to "ebike ride" which removes me from all leader boards. Its common to get a few comments soon after I finish with multiple KOMs especially if I finish ahead by 2 or 3 minutes. I totally understand the frustration and fear of never again knowing if someone legit beat you or if they cheated by using an ebike. Strava needs to step up here and create an eKOM and eQOM for existing segments. Currently, segments do not carry over if you choose ebike ride so this means we need to create all new segments, which to be honest might be good in some ways. I just think it would be more fun if we could all compete on the same segments and just have different leader boards. Who wouldnt want bragging rights if you can still beat out ebikes on a segment?

6th- Its cheating. Nope. (I mean aside from sneaky Strava cheaters) if youre going to go out and do your same 10mi ride at the same speed as usual, yes it will feel like cheating but youre only cheating gravity. Ive found myself doing either twice as many miles or twice as many rides as usual so overall its possible to get the same if not better workout, if thats what your into. You can still pedal as hard as a normal bike, the difference is you will be working twice as hard to control a 50lb bike at that speed. Jumping logs, wheelie drops, step-ups etc... all will require a bit more muscle to move the extra weight so Ive found I get a tougher upper body workout than on a normal bike. I would compare it to riding at a bike park all day. Its nice to have some control over your heart rate as well. If you want a recovery ride, pop it into high power mode and let the bike do most of the work. Looking to max out, put it in low power and pedal your ass off. Its so great to have a choice at any given time throughout the ride. A bit hungover? well, youll prob still puke but you will have more fun that day on an ebike.

Overall, I have done most of my ebike rides with my normal riding buddies on their non ebikes. There really is no big difference in what we are doing. Its still just mountain biking. Its not that different than having a very fast friend that trains and races all the time and is always up front. Again, an ebike is a pedaling amplifier and nothing more.
Ebikes are incredibly fun and make the sport way more enjoyable IMO. Things that become more fun and enjoyable tend to stick around. ebikes are only going to become more popular and I dont think it will be a bad thing.
An outright ban is ridiculous, in fact I see no reason to not treat them like a standard MTB. Should we ban guys from training and getting faster? Ban bike technology from advancing and maybe go back to rigid 26" wheel bikes? Relax people, if you have the chance, try one and you will realize there is nothing to panic about.

Peace, see you on the trails.
 
T-Van said:
Having now owned an eMTB for a month and put about 200 miles on it, I feel I'm a bit more qualified to comment on this banning B.S. than some of the panicked idiots that have never even seen one in person, let alone understand how they work.

First off, stop with the motorcycle comparison! It couldnt be further from reality. Yes it has two wheels and a motor but its absolutely nothing like a dirtbike. I know, Ive also ridden and raced enduro dirtbikes for 30 years and have been mountain biking just as long. Its a bicycle, it rides like a bicycle, you have to pedal it like a bicycle and it handles like a bicycle. Theres no Throttle, its just a pedaling amplifier! Now, bikes that are unrestricted, have throttles and produce crazy power are definitely electric motorcycles and should not be lumped in with legit eMTBs.

Second, they dont cause any additional trail damage. Sure they weigh up to 50lbs or so but do you mean to tell me that anyone that weighs 20lbs more than you shouldnt be riding because the extra weight damages trails? You need to look at total weight of rider plus bike plus gear. These are heavier but it makes no difference. In fact the extra weight gives you better traction which results in less wheel slip and therefore less damage to trail surface. The motors do not produce enough power all at once to roost from the rear wheel so overall, I have noticed zero difference to the trail while riding with normal pedal bikes

Third, trail speed causing conflicts. The eMTBs I'm talking about are pedal assist only and are limited to 20mph assistance. Yes you can pedal faster if you have the legs but the motor calls it quits as soon as you near the 20mph limit. On downhills, this means overall about the same speed as any capable trail or enduro bike. In fact I would say that if you are pedaling past 20mph you will be faster on a regular bike because its lighter and accelerates faster. I have proven this by comparing my Strava times. On flats, you can def maintain a faster pace but you are still limited to your own riding capabilities. A really strong rider wont be far behind you. On climbs is where things get interesting. Its possible to double your normal speed on a flowing climb. The technical climbs wont be much faster but you will feel way better at the top. lol The thing is, aside from a bike park, all trails are 2 way which means that trail speeds will still be way faster coming down than climbing on an ebike. Overall, conflicts with other trail users wont change with ebikes, it still takes a responsible rider to not blast into blind turns where hikers could be. Downhill speed and control will remain the issue.

Fourth- Noise. This is a non issue, if youre more than a few feet away, you cant hear them.

Fifth- The Strava conflict. I honestly see this as being the main reason for the fear/hatred/jealousy of ebikes. Ive been saving my rides as a standard ride just to compare my times, I then switch to "ebike ride" which removes me from all leader boards. Its common to get a few comments soon after I finish with multiple KOMs especially if I finish ahead by 2 or 3 minutes. I totally understand the frustration and fear of never again knowing if someone legit beat you or if they cheated by using an ebike. Strava needs to step up here and create an eKOM and eQOM for existing segments. Currently, segments do not carry over if you choose ebike ride so this means we need to create all new segments, which to be honest might be good in some ways. I just think it would be more fun if we could all compete on the same segments and just have different leader boards. Who wouldnt want bragging rights if you can still beat out ebikes on a segment?

6th- Its cheating. Nope. (I mean aside from sneaky Strava cheaters) if youre going to go out and do your same 10mi ride at the same speed as usual, yes it will feel like cheating but youre only cheating gravity. Ive found myself doing either twice as many miles or twice as many rides as usual so overall its possible to get the same if not better workout, if thats what your into. You can still pedal as hard as a normal bike, the difference is you will be working twice as hard to control a 50lb bike at that speed. Jumping logs, wheelie drops, step-ups etc... all will require a bit more muscle to move the extra weight so Ive found I get a tougher upper body workout than on a normal bike. I would compare it to riding at a bike park all day. Its nice to have some control over your heart rate as well. If you want a recovery ride, pop it into high power mode and let the bike do most of the work. Looking to max out, put it in low power and pedal your ass off. Its so great to have a choice at any given time throughout the ride. A bit hungover? well, youll prob still puke but you will have more fun that day on an ebike.

Overall, I have done most of my ebike rides with my normal riding buddies on their non ebikes. There really is no big difference in what we are doing. Its still just mountain biking. Its not that different than having a very fast friend that trains and races all the time and is always up front. Again, an ebike is a pedaling amplifier and nothing more.
Ebikes are incredibly fun and make the sport way more enjoyable IMO. Things that become more fun and enjoyable tend to stick around. ebikes are only going to become more popular and I dont think it will be a bad thing.
An outright ban is ridiculous, in fact I see no reason to not treat them like a standard MTB. Should we ban guys from training and getting faster? Ban bike technology from advancing and maybe go back to rigid 26" wheel bikes? Relax people, if you have the chance, try one and you will realize there is nothing to panic about.

Peace, see you on the trails.
Click to expand...
I think I agree with just about everything you said. It seems the harshest critics of eMTB probably have never ridden one. When I hear or see people call them electric mopeds or electric motorcycles I just shake my head and walk away because there's no point in trying to convince them anymore. I hate to think that Strava times are the main concern for the critics and if that's true then that in itself is disturbing. Anybody ride for fun anymore?
 
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T-Van said:
Having now owned an eMTB for a month and put about 200 miles on it, I feel I'm a bit more qualified to comment on this banning B.S. than some of the panicked idiots that have never even seen one in person, let alone understand how they work...
Click to expand...

This is a mic drop. I mean there's nothing else to argue. I'm just waiting until eBikes get down to 35 lbs. Ah, who am I kidding. If i could afford it, i'd buy one now. :cool:
 
T-Van said:
Having now owned an eMTB for a month and put about 200 miles on it, I feel I'm a bit more qualified to comment on this banning B.S. than some of the panicked idiots that have never even seen one in person, let alone understand how they work.

Your arguments make sense, but you almost lost me here. People (like me) have legitimate concerns, but calling them idiots and their concerns BS is not the way to change minds.
Click to expand...
 
Am I detecting a industry trend to make cycling easier ?

Kudos to you if you want to ride a 50lb, plug-in bike, it's just not for me. But I'm always late to the party and still ride 24 and 26'ers.
 
T-Van said:
Having now owned an eMTB for a month and put about 200 miles on it, I feel I'm a bit more qualified to comment on this banning B.S. than some of the panicked idiots that have never even seen one in person, let alone understand how they work.

First off, stop with the motorcycle comparison! It couldnt be further from reality. Yes it has two wheels and a motor but its absolutely nothing like a dirtbike. I know, Ive also ridden and raced enduro dirtbikes for 30 years and have been mountain biking just as long. Its a bicycle, it rides like a bicycle, you have to pedal it like a bicycle and it handles like a bicycle. Theres no Throttle, its just a pedaling amplifier! Now, bikes that are unrestricted, have throttles and produce crazy power are definitely electric motorcycles and should not be lumped in with legit eMTBs.

Second, they dont cause any additional trail damage. Sure they weigh up to 50lbs or so but do you mean to tell me that anyone that weighs 20lbs more than you shouldnt be riding because the extra weight damages trails? You need to look at total weight of rider plus bike plus gear. These are heavier but it makes no difference. In fact the extra weight gives you better traction which results in less wheel slip and therefore less damage to trail surface. The motors do not produce enough power all at once to roost from the rear wheel so overall, I have noticed zero difference to the trail while riding with normal pedal bikes

Third, trail speed causing conflicts. The eMTBs I'm talking about are pedal assist only and are limited to 20mph assistance. Yes you can pedal faster if you have the legs but the motor calls it quits as soon as you near the 20mph limit. On downhills, this means overall about the same speed as any capable trail or enduro bike. In fact I would say that if you are pedaling past 20mph you will be faster on a regular bike because its lighter and accelerates faster. I have proven this by comparing my Strava times. On flats, you can def maintain a faster pace but you are still limited to your own riding capabilities. A really strong rider wont be far behind you. On climbs is where things get interesting. Its possible to double your normal speed on a flowing climb. The technical climbs wont be much faster but you will feel way better at the top. lol The thing is, aside from a bike park, all trails are 2 way which means that trail speeds will still be way faster coming down than climbing on an ebike. Overall, conflicts with other trail users wont change with ebikes, it still takes a responsible rider to not blast into blind turns where hikers could be. Downhill speed and control will remain the issue.

Fourth- Noise. This is a non issue, if youre more than a few feet away, you cant hear them.

Fifth- The Strava conflict. I honestly see this as being the main reason for the fear/hatred/jealousy of ebikes. Ive been saving my rides as a standard ride just to compare my times, I then switch to "ebike ride" which removes me from all leader boards. Its common to get a few comments soon after I finish with multiple KOMs especially if I finish ahead by 2 or 3 minutes. I totally understand the frustration and fear of never again knowing if someone legit beat you or if they cheated by using an ebike. Strava needs to step up here and create an eKOM and eQOM for existing segments. Currently, segments do not carry over if you choose ebike ride so this means we need to create all new segments, which to be honest might be good in some ways. I just think it would be more fun if we could all compete on the same segments and just have different leader boards. Who wouldnt want bragging rights if you can still beat out ebikes on a segment?

6th- Its cheating. Nope. (I mean aside from sneaky Strava cheaters) if youre going to go out and do your same 10mi ride at the same speed as usual, yes it will feel like cheating but youre only cheating gravity. Ive found myself doing either twice as many miles or twice as many rides as usual so overall its possible to get the same if not better workout, if thats what your into. You can still pedal as hard as a normal bike, the difference is you will be working twice as hard to control a 50lb bike at that speed. Jumping logs, wheelie drops, step-ups etc... all will require a bit more muscle to move the extra weight so Ive found I get a tougher upper body workout than on a normal bike. I would compare it to riding at a bike park all day. Its nice to have some control over your heart rate as well. If you want a recovery ride, pop it into high power mode and let the bike do most of the work. Looking to max out, put it in low power and pedal your ass off. Its so great to have a choice at any given time throughout the ride. A bit hungover? well, youll prob still puke but you will have more fun that day on an ebike.

Overall, I have done most of my ebike rides with my normal riding buddies on their non ebikes. There really is no big difference in what we are doing. Its still just mountain biking. Its not that different than having a very fast friend that trains and races all the time and is always up front. Again, an ebike is a pedaling amplifier and nothing more.
Ebikes are incredibly fun and make the sport way more enjoyable IMO. Things that become more fun and enjoyable tend to stick around. ebikes are only going to become more popular and I dont think it will be a bad thing.
An outright ban is ridiculous, in fact I see no reason to not treat them like a standard MTB. Should we ban guys from training and getting faster? Ban bike technology from advancing and maybe go back to rigid 26" wheel bikes? Relax people, if you have the chance, try one and you will realize there is nothing to panic about.

Peace, see you on the trails.
Click to expand...

So I'll offer my 2 cents as a counter point. But first, I have to caveat that if you're handicapped, sick, or injured I get it, e-bikes get you into the woods and back to doing something you love. I'd say old too, but I know a couple of 70+ year olds who wouldn't be caught dead on one since its a point of pride that they can still ride in the first place without assistance. If you're able bodied, then why? Isn't the entire point of riding a bike to do it under your own power, have a great time, while getting a workout? Its sad that e-bikes make "riding more fun" by making the hard part easier. Grinding up a hill is supposed to be hard, that's kind of the point. Its hard, and it makes you stronger. A stronger you is a healthier you. If you aren't fit, then you suffer like any other non-fit person until you get fit, walk the hard parts until you're strong enough to clean them. I don't get this whole easier is funner thing.
 
I have a few friends in their 80's that simply cannot enjoy riding anymore with a std mtn bike. Their bodies just cannot do it anymore. They now have e-bikes and are happy as can be once again doing what they love to do. God bless 'em. If I'm lucky enough to make that age I hope to be doin' just what they are.
 
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