How Quickly will mwlikeseBikes be Banned on Trails in our Area?

stb222

Love Drunk
Jerk Squad
With @Mountain Bike Mike and @jimvreeland going to Raystown recently, where ebikes are not allowed on the trails, it re-sparked me thinking about ebikes on trails and how it is probably the biggest threat to trail access since Starva and also since the local IMBA reps started skidding up central jersey parks (just kidding, sorta, but seriously, stop it, just kidding, we know you aren't the one).

Rays.jpg

Pic courtesy of Mountain Bike Mike Inc, LLC. All rights reserved.

All kidding aside, someone may be able to shed light on who pushed making ebikes illegal at Raystowns, meaning was it MTB organizations getting ahead of the high probability of issues or did one of the other groups get ahead of it first. It is likely an easy sell to convince land mangers to extend existing motorized vehicle bans to include ebikes and there are more than a few parks where there is already tension between MTB and other trails users.

In general, ebikes would allow slower riders to ride faster in the woods. Typically, the faster riders are more experienced and have gained the skills to ride at high speeds over time. With an ebike, you now have riders that dont have the skills to ride at higher speeds which can lead to the greater probability of personal injury, damage to the trails, other traiuls user conflicts and injury to other trail users.

I don't think the MTB community suggesting that parks add ebikes to the motorized vehicle bans should be out of the question. Lets discuss and see how we can make that happen.

Also, this is probably already on Jorba's list but would be nice for @michael.su, @KenS and @Frank to weigh in.
 

Patrick

Overthinking the draft from the basement already
Staff member
Sun Tzu, “If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”

https://electricbikeassociation.org/

as an aside, those with certain physical challenges should be allowed....
 

Mountain Bike Mike

Well-Known Member
While at Ottos this week, Chris (rep for Haibike) was there and we chatted about the ban at Raystown and other parks. He has some compelling oppositional arguments where bike parks are welcoming the e-bike as it allows families of all fitness levels and skillsets to ride together and the parks banning e-bikes are losing business since families are turned away and forced to find trails that allow e-bikes.

Anyone know Facas's tag on this forum?

I'd love for him to explain what he told me, I wouldn't do it justice.

I am contemplating purchasing an e-bike for Stef so she can hang with us. To @stb222 point about speed / skill level, her skills need lots of work and the boys have been lobbying for her to take a @Robin skills course before we plant her on an e-bike. Cause we don't want her to die falling off the side of a mountain in Vermont or Moab (edit) or Mercer Rampage section
 

Frank

Sasquatch
In general, ebikes would allow slower riders to ride faster in the woods. Typically, the faster riders are more experienced and have gained the skills to ride at high speeds over time. With an ebike, you now have riders that dont have the skills to ride at higher speeds which can lead to the greater probability of personal injury, damage to the trails, other trail user conflicts and injury to other trail users.
State parks like Allaire already have a stand on this issue....the signs say "No motorized vehicles" which pretty much covers e-bikes.
Kevin pretty much nailed my (retired, non-affiliated, no longer a board member) opposition to e-bikes on the trails (quoted above) but I will add another for parks in more remote locations.....if a rider ventures too far out and loses power, they may face death due to exposure or animals because they did not earn the experience necessary to deal with the situation, and does not have the strength to pedal the turd back.
 
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Monkey Soup

Angry Wanker
This whole ebikes lets families ride together thing is a bullshit reason. How many families are there saying, "gee, I wish we could all ride together, but I don't have the fitness"? If you want to ride with your family, introduce them to biking, then ride SLOW, and not too far. That's how bike riding works, patience and time. If someone is motivated enough to do it, then they will get it over time. That's how I was brought into it, how I brought my kids into it (wife is a runner, not interested in riding). And most kids are in awesome shape also, they just need to practice skills.

I understand how a disabled person would benefit from an ebike, but also hope that said disabled person rides somewhere with good cell service so that if their bike breaks, they're not stuck miles away with a 50lb bike, and become bear-bait somewhere like Wayway.

An ebike defeats the fundamental purpose of why we ride. Its a fun way to stay fit. And also just fun, period. Everyone wants a shortcut these days. Earn your turns.
 

clarkenstein

JORBA Board Member/Chapter Leader
JORBA.ORG
i agree with the disabled argument @Monkey Soup is saying - i'm all for access, but if the battery dies, or the engine goes out, they are really screwed. i guess one of us can break a collar bone flipping over the bars, so the argument can be said for both situations, but i look at it as more things to go wrong, and less of a chance of getting out on your own power.

i'm not one to figure out what risks people can take, disabled or not, but i think no motorized vehicles is pretty clear - no engine other than the human body. if the parks want to create a waiver someone can apply for to use one, like for a disabled person or someone with an argument to use one (hauling trail maintenance tools) i'm all for it.
 

pooriggy

Well-Known Member
Team MTBNJ Halter's
Yeah, I agree with a ban of Ebikes on trails. If a family wants to ride together let them do so on rail trails, these are more beginner friendly. Using an ebike on a trail requires some skill, just because you can afford a motorized bike does not mean you can handle yourself on one.

I see more Ebikes on the road lately as well. Kids doing 25+mph with no helmet and no experience riding congested roads. It's scary. Unfortunately a lot of people will get hurt before legislation is put into place to protect people using Ebikes.

This is a pic from Burlington VT I took a week ago. Instead of college kids pedaling a bike to class, now they can motor there and tourists can rent one in flip flops to zip around.
20170929_100339.jpg
 

Steve Vai

Endurance Guy: Tolerates most of us.
I think there's a ton of misinformation and understanding of what an e-bike is actually capable of. I was easily able to outride all of my co-workers on a single-speed while they were on 10k+ e-bikes. They are NOT faster than a normal bike by any means, all they do is make the effort to sustain that speed non-exsistant. We Strava'd our ride this weekend and my times were faster in every part of the park. Should I be banned? It's just another thing that people can complain about.
 

Frank

Sasquatch
I think there's a ton of misinformation and understanding of what an e-bike is actually capable of. I was easily able to outride all of my co-workers on a single-speed while they were on 10k+ e-bikes. They are NOT faster than a normal bike by any means, all they do is make the effort to sustain that speed non-exsistant. We Strava'd our ride this weekend and my times were faster in every part of the park. Should I be banned? It's just another thing that people can complain about.
No argument here....rules are already in place at most parks. They just haven't figured out a Vreeland clause yet... ;)
 

Dingo

Well-Known Member
I think there's a ton of misinformation and understanding of what an e-bike is actually capable of. I was easily able to outride all of my co-workers on a single-speed while they were on 10k+ e-bikes. They are NOT faster than a normal bike by any means, all they do is make the effort to sustain that speed non-exsistant. We Strava'd our ride this weekend and my times were faster in every part of the park. Should I be banned? It's just another thing that people can complain about.
Jim, as usual you are the exception...
 

Steve Vai

Endurance Guy: Tolerates most of us.
Jim, as usual you are the exception...

Possibly. If you follow the other e-thread I've been pretty vocal in my disappointment of e-bikes. My lunch run around town is faster on our $200 hybrid with a basket than our $5,500 e-commuter. My commute is faster also on a normal bike. As I said previously, all they do is make staying at a normal speed easier.
 

jdgang

Well-Known Member
I think once the big three have decided that Ebikes are the way of their future profits , they will throw their money behind whoever is going to vote to allow this in the parks. These people will change whatever rules need to be change.
 

stb222

Love Drunk
Jerk Squad
Possibly. If you follow the other e-thread I've been pretty vocal in my disappointment of e-bikes. My lunch run around town is faster on our $200 hybrid with a basket than our $5,500 e-commuter. My commute is faster also on a normal bike. As I said previously, all they do is make staying at a normal speed easier.
The majority of us on here are the exception, but we aren't the market for ebikes, in general, we have the skill to handle our bikes at the speeds we push.

But to that point, if you rode at the same intensity / power output as your normal ride and had some extra assit on the hills, you couldnt go faster on an ebike?
 

Frank

Sasquatch
Some have limits to power output and speed from the factory.......until someone modifies them
 

Steve Vai

Endurance Guy: Tolerates most of us.
But to that point, if you rode at the same intensity / power output as your normal ride and had some extra assit on the hills, you couldnt go faster on an ebike?

No. They're governed. The speed is the same regardless of input.
 
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