How Quickly will mwlikeseBikes be Banned on Trails in our Area?
- Thread starter stb222
- Start date
fixed
thegock
Well-Known Member
Killa
BITE ME
mwlikesbikes
Well-Known Member
Oh schweet jeebus...?
Doctor Dave
New Member
Olympic athlete vs. former pro freestyle rider Chris Smith on a world cup course. All your questions are answered.
A Potted Plant
Honorary Sod
Could I beat Utah on an ebike spoiler alert... Not a chance
Doctor Dave
New Member
Here, here.
Joined the forum to provide an e-biker's perspective.
I may actually fall into your elderly category (at least I qualify for AARP membership) and I'm probably more than a little lame (figuratively, not literally). I ride with e and non-e folks, we're all very experienced riders, and nobody gives a s***. The main advantage is on the uphills - on technical stuff you better have your skillz (in fact the weight can be a disadvantage for trials-type work), and on straightaways non-e wins (unless you have trouble keeping a 20mph+ pace). My bike is pretty much identical to my friend's non-e components, with a motor instead of a crankset. I get at least as good a workout as I ever did on my non-e bike, I ride a lot more, and frankly I enjoy it a lot more. As some have pointed out in this epic 2-year-plus thread, the Europeans are totally over this, and many pros train on e-bikes. The EMBN (Electric Mountain Bike Network) channel is run by former pro non-ebike riders who have "crossed over", and covers every conceivable angle discussed here. You'll even see some well known GMBN guest personalities showing off their ebike skills. It's unfortunate the US is so far behind on this. The only legit concern I've heard here is where bicycles have been granted limited access by landowners and the extra usage due to range available to ebikers may impact land use rights. The rest, as they say in the UK, is probably, respectfully, whinging.
Here's the the EMBN channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7Txz5nUDD14vCdNSU_JydQ/videos
David
Hi good @Doctor Dave !
somewhere up this thread, i changed my mind. Esp after being on a groupie with a couple of ebikers, who couldn't have
come without them.
i have no doubt that e-bikes are here to stay, and growing.
Can't see a single thing wrong with it anymore.
Hey, we were short-cutting by using 29" wheels too.....
i worry about them in certain crowded parks - even then, it would only be the jerk (who would be a jerk w/o ebike)
Ride what ya got.
somewhere up this thread, i changed my mind. Esp after being on a groupie with a couple of ebikers, who couldn't have
come without them.
i have no doubt that e-bikes are here to stay, and growing.
Can't see a single thing wrong with it anymore.
Hey, we were short-cutting by using 29" wheels too.....
i worry about them in certain crowded parks - even then, it would only be the jerk (who would be a jerk w/o ebike)
Ride what ya got.
Kaleidopete
Well-Known Member
E bikes legal in all of NY today, new law passed
https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2019/06/19/ebike-escooter-vote-today/
https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2019/06/19/ebike-escooter-vote-today/
Doctor Dave
New Member
This is mostly right - an eMTB still requires plenty of effort. Ebikes are not magically faster and do not amplify stupidity (I’m talking mid-drive trail bike). I have ridden e and non-e extensively and own both. Hub drive bikes in town (worthless on trails - type 2 with throttle) have some potential abuse issues, that is off topic for this discussion. Mid-drive pedelec I agree with Jim, they are only faster up hills (and trust me you still work at it.) Non-e can and do go faster level and down, as I can attest with the non-e’s i ride with. E is a different riding experience I prefer. An eMTB is a full-on full suspension mountain bike or hardtail with literally same components as a non-e bike (wheels, shocks, cranks, sprocket, cassette, derailleur, brakes, chain), with a mid-drive motor instead of a crankset.
Type 1 mid-drive eMTBs on trails (which is what we’re talking here):
- don't erode trails more (ride one on a trail and see)
- don’t go faster than non-e where it counts as in pain and accidents (ride one on a trail and see)
- don’t give power when you’re not pedaling and are governed
- don’t do burnouts
- don’t kill puppies
It’s a different riding experience but it’s legit (see EMBN YouTube channel). The “earn it” folks don’t like “shuttlecocks” either. Ban that? The whole purpose of shuttling is to get the downhill without “earning” it. “Earn it” is a style of riding I respect, but don’t prefer. Trail speed, stranding due to poor planning and mech issues, these are not any different on e-bikes than non-e. Running into a tree or endoing on a fast downhill hurts the same on either and is just as easy to do. As Jim points out non-e is faster where the speed counts, around trees and hills. My average trail speed on e is about the same as non-e, GPS-backed (unless there are lots of uphills). I ride with non-e all the time and they are usually waiting for me except on the uphills. Common sense will naturally limit speed on either e or non-e, lack thereof will get you in trouble on either. Uphill crashes/issues, which is where ebike shines? Show me. Bear food if you don’t walk fast enough after poor planning / mech issue / injury? Same for e and non-e. Unless e and non-e riding together, then old joke about running faster than the other guy not the bear applies.
Steve Vai
Endurance Guy: Tolerates most of us.
This is mostly right - an eMTB still requires plenty of effort. Ebikes are not magically faster and do not amplify stupidity (I’m talking mid-drive trail bike). I have ridden e and non-e extensively and own both. Hub drive bikes in town (worthless on trails - type 2 with throttle) have some potential abuse issues, that is off topic for this discussion. Mid-drive pedelec I agree with Jim, they are only faster up hills (and trust me you still work at it.) Non-e can and do go faster level and down, as I can attest with the non-e’s i ride with. E is a different riding experience I prefer. An eMTB is a full-on full suspension mountain bike or hardtail with literally same components as a non-e bike (wheels, shocks, cranks, sprocket, cassette, derailleur, brakes, chain), with a mid-drive motor instead of a crankset.
Type 1 mid-drive eMTBs on trails (which is what we’re talking here):
- don't erode trails more (ride one on a trail and see)
- don’t go faster than non-e where it counts as in pain and accidents (ride one on a trail and see)
- don’t give power when you’re not pedaling and are governed
- don’t do burnouts
- don’t kill puppies
It’s a different riding experience but it’s legit (see EMBN YouTube channel). The “earn it” folks don’t like “shuttlecocks” either. Ban that? The whole purpose of shuttling is to get the downhill without “earning” it. “Earn it” is a style of riding I respect, but don’t prefer. Trail speed, stranding due to poor planning and mech issues, these are not any different on e-bikes than non-e. Running into a tree or endoing on a fast downhill hurts the same on either and is just as easy to do. As Jim points out non-e is faster where the speed counts, around trees and hills. My average trail speed on e is about the same as non-e, GPS-backed (unless there are lots of uphills). I ride with non-e all the time and they are usually waiting for me except on the uphills. Common sense will naturally limit speed on either e or non-e, lack thereof will get you in trouble on either. Uphill crashes/issues, which is where ebike shines? Show me. Bear food if you don’t walk fast enough after poor planning / mech issue / injury? Same for e and non-e. Unless e and non-e riding together, then old joke about running faster than the other guy not the bear applies.
As a reference, my co-workers were on jailbroken Specialized Turbo Levos and I'm Cat1.
Pearl
THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING
damn watching this now, that e bike weighs 50 pounds!?
it is funny to see the dude on the ebike take the holeshot in straight enduro gear lol
that course looks dope
would love to see non-ebike power output for the race too, just for shits and gigs
as i expected, the bike handling parts, e-biek struggled, but on those straights, its impossible to keep up
blackburn1973
Well-Known Member
Just to stir the pot, what about something like this: https://newatlas.com/luna-x1-enduro-ebike-full-suspension/60227/ ???
Don't know much about its specs, and maybe it behaves exactly the same as other e-bikes detailed above, but does seems like a version of Moore's Law is @ work with e-bikes and we're going to see "ludicrous modes" in excess of 2KW of power and price tags below $3,500.
Don't know much about its specs, and maybe it behaves exactly the same as other e-bikes detailed above, but does seems like a version of Moore's Law is @ work with e-bikes and we're going to see "ludicrous modes" in excess of 2KW of power and price tags below $3,500.
Doctor Dave
New Member
Not likely for MTB. Watch EMBN. The Europeans are driving the market. Demand is for lighter, not faster (they are limited to 15mph!), and looks and acts like a traditional MTB. Turbo Levo (one of the market leaders) is great example. 2019 aluminum model is lighter than 2018 carbon model. Bigger battery, same motor output. The top of the line all-mtn, enduro, etc ebikes look very much like their non-e bretheren in each class, and pro mtb riders in EU are adopting them for training and rec. I think what you will see is convergence to a “does both” mean FOR MTB - elec assist of some kind on MTB will be a given, like full suspension, for high end. Think about it - on trails, what is the limiting factor? Not speed. Skill on technical, and grunt on uphill. Why not a bike that maneuvers like non-e and takes the grunt out of hills? Adaptive power (“there when you need/want it”) is getting better. Also, in both US and EU the speed is limited. While they can be jailbroken, IMO it is incremental benefit in limited circumstances on eMTB designed for the limited classes (motor size, battery weight, 1x11 drivetrain, etc.)
In non-MTB, such “bikes” already exist (with a high price tag). They are either “illegal” homebuilds, or motorcycles with vestigial or no pedals. In both US and EU they are different class. For large motors you have large batteries, and as well they are hub drive not mid-drive, so not useful for MTB. More likely e-dirt bikes will emerge, which should be treated like gas dirt bikes or quads. With how good and cheap 4-stroke dirt bikes are (relatively speaking) I doubt this is going to take off quickly if at all. Most likely you will see motor inflation on street and gravel use. Again weight and cost of battery is limiting factor. The ones that exist now are expensive boulevard cruisers or gravel bikes.
Doctor Dave
New Member
Oops just looked at the link, didn't realize it was a mid-drive. I think most of my comments still apply and Bafang is not a market leader in mid-drive (yet). Hmmm.
All very informative @Doctor Dave -
Are you involved in the sales or distribution? this is not a bad thing, just for transparency.
i was a teen in the moped years - never owned one..but did have a stripped dt250 - not sure mtb existed then
so this is very interesting to me. I'm in the market for my spouse - she likes the idea of longer rides (rail trail), but the world doesn't
allow her to train for them.
Are you involved in the sales or distribution? this is not a bad thing, just for transparency.
i was a teen in the moped years - never owned one..but did have a stripped dt250 - not sure mtb existed then
so this is very interesting to me. I'm in the market for my spouse - she likes the idea of longer rides (rail trail), but the world doesn't
allow her to train for them.