How Quickly will mwlikeseBikes be Banned on Trails in our Area?

Give the people what they want.

Apparently there is a demand for Ebikes if there selling them, personally I think it's lame for the non elderly and folks without health issues to ride them but honestly who gives a shit what I think you should be riding. For the record I think Fat bikes are stupid too and a lot of music they play on the radio sucks...but again who am I to tell you what to do...and do I really want a world where everyone shares my exact point of view as well as likes and dislikes.

You shouldn't have to justify what kind of bike you ride to anyone, do your thing, people are gonna have their opinions, right or wrong, it don't matter. Nothing matters, it's not over until we say it's over...who's with me???
 
Give the people what they want.

Apparently there is a demand for Ebikes if there selling them, personally I think it's lame for the non elderly and folks without health issues to ride them but honestly who gives a shit what I think you should be riding. For the record I think Fat bikes are stupid too and a lot of music they play on the radio sucks...but again who am I to tell you what to do...and do I really want a world where everyone shares my exact point of view as well as likes and dislikes.

You shouldn't have to justify what kind of bike you ride to anyone, do your thing, people are gonna have their opinions, right or wrong, it don't matter. Nothing matters, it's not over until we say it's over...who's with me???

Well said. I take the same stance on this issue I do with most other issues. I don't care what you do, think, believe, practice, etc. as long as it doesn't cost me money or somehow impinge my freedoms.
 
So I'll offer my 2 cents as a counter point. But first, I have to caveat that if you're handicapped, sick, or injured I get it, e-bikes get you into the woods and back to doing something you love. I'd say old too, but I know a couple of 70+ year olds who wouldn't be caught dead on one since its a point of pride that they can still ride in the first place without assistance. If you're able bodied, then why? Isn't the entire point of riding a bike to do it under your own power, have a great time, while getting a workout? Its sad that e-bikes make "riding more fun" by making the hard part easier. Grinding up a hill is supposed to be hard, that's kind of the point. Its hard, and it makes you stronger. A stronger you is a healthier you. If you aren't fit, then you suffer like any other non-fit person until you get fit, walk the hard parts until you're strong enough to clean them. I don't get this whole easier is funner thing.

I guess it all comes down to what you want to get out of a ride. If your looking for a lung burning workout maybe an ebike isnt for you, however one could argue that turning the power off and pedaling a 50lb bike uphill would be the ultimate bike workout and would either kill you or make you stronger. lol

The biggest advantage of an ebike is that it can offer more choices. Its not just making the hard parts easier, its about making them fun! I still max out my heart rate every ride but only when I choose to. If you want to challenge your fitness level, do 40 miles in low power or even turn it off on easy sections. Had enough?, switch it to high and cruise back home while recovering.
Trail maintenance day? load up every tool you have and still climb hills no problem.
Recovery ride? No better way to keep your heart rate in check while still having fun.
Your buddys bike is beyond repair in the middle of the woods? Tow him back or zip back to the truck and drive back for him.

More choices equal a better experience,for me anyway. Since getting the ebike, I no longer care what trail we decide to take, they are all fun and I'm not afraid of bonking 12 miles from the finish. Without fail, someone will mention a big climb and then turn to me and say, "well, you dont care either way! " Thats a good feeling!
Keep in mind that I'm mostly riding with guys on regular bikes. I did a ride with 2 other ebikes a few weeks back and it changed things quite a bit. Since the motor only amplifies your pedaling, it can end up being just as difficult as a non ebike if you want to be ahead of, or keep up to other ebikes. Racing up climbs will absolutely max out your heart rate but for a shorter duration since you get to the top faster. Factor in doing this for twice or three times the mileage and you could end up MORE beat at the end of an ebike ride. I'm serious, you need to try one to understand.

One final point on the easier is more fun statement. This exact scenario has been playing out in slow motion over the last 30 plus years. Current trail/enduro bikes are soooooooo much more capable and easy to ride compared to the full rigid 26" hardtail I started on. More fun? ABSOLUTELY! Why is that though, just because it easier? Nope, because it made it possible to ride more difficult trails without killing yourself. Riding fast over gnarly terrain is fun, at least to me. I probably ride harder on my current bike than way back then, the difference is, its easier so I ride longer and also more challenging trails. There is literally no difference with the advantage ebikes provide. It just provides a big advantage all at once so its more noticeable. I would guarantee that theres a bigger advantage gap between an old rigid mtb and a new carbon trail bike than there is between that same carbon trail bike and an ebike. 30 years of small improvements have made a gigantic difference in every way, adding a motor just makes a difference in one way, how hard you choose to pedal.
 
I saw 3 e- fat bikes in Ramapo the other week. I was climbing up to the ruins and they were coming down. I also saw a regular e-mtn bike on Yellow heading up from the lake.
They are becoming more popular.
 
I guess it all comes down to what you want to get out of a ride. If your looking for a lung burning workout maybe an ebike isnt for you, however one could argue that turning the power off and pedaling a 50lb bike uphill would be the ultimate bike workout and would either kill you or make you stronger. lol

The biggest advantage of an ebike is that it can offer more choices. Its not just making the hard parts easier, its about making them fun! I still max out my heart rate every ride but only when I choose to. If you want to challenge your fitness level, do 40 miles in low power or even turn it off on easy sections. Had enough?, switch it to high and cruise back home while recovering.
Trail maintenance day? load up every tool you have and still climb hills no problem.
Recovery ride? No better way to keep your heart rate in check while still having fun.
Your buddys bike is beyond repair in the middle of the woods? Tow him back or zip back to the truck and drive back for him.

More choices equal a better experience,for me anyway. Since getting the ebike, I no longer care what trail we decide to take, they are all fun and I'm not afraid of bonking 12 miles from the finish. Without fail, someone will mention a big climb and then turn to me and say, "well, you dont care either way! " Thats a good feeling!
Keep in mind that I'm mostly riding with guys on regular bikes. I did a ride with 2 other ebikes a few weeks back and it changed things quite a bit. Since the motor only amplifies your pedaling, it can end up being just as difficult as a non ebike if you want to be ahead of, or keep up to other ebikes. Racing up climbs will absolutely max out your heart rate but for a shorter duration since you get to the top faster. Factor in doing this for twice or three times the mileage and you could end up MORE beat at the end of an ebike ride. I'm serious, you need to try one to understand.

One final point on the easier is more fun statement. This exact scenario has been playing out in slow motion over the last 30 plus years. Current trail/enduro bikes are soooooooo much more capable and easy to ride compared to the full rigid 26" hardtail I started on. More fun? ABSOLUTELY! Why is that though, just because it easier? Nope, because it made it possible to ride more difficult trails without killing yourself. Riding fast over gnarly terrain is fun, at least to me. I probably ride harder on my current bike than way back then, the difference is, its easier so I ride longer and also more challenging trails. There is literally no difference with the advantage ebikes provide. It just provides a big advantage all at once so its more noticeable. I would guarantee that theres a bigger advantage gap between an old rigid mtb and a new carbon trail bike than there is between that same carbon trail bike and an ebike. 30 years of small improvements have made a gigantic difference in every way, adding a motor just makes a difference in one way, how hard you choose to pedal.

Well, its all in your mindset, ride whatever makes you happy and brings you joy. Me personally, I've bonked 12 miles from the finish, and when someone mentions a big climb, I say challenge accepted (just wait for me at the top). These little things are what makes a ride epic. Overcoming the challenges, or puking while you try. Last year I decided to do 18 miles while I had a kidney stent in me (not my smartest idea, hence my name). I had to stop and piss blood every 30min.,I bonked hard at the top or Pearson's Ridge, and had to get my shit together to make through, the white trail, out to lookout, and back to Skyline. It was a beautiful spring day, blue bird, and the ride was both excruciating and exhilarating at the same time. I'll remember it for the rest of my life because of both the pain, and the joy of being back out on a bike after 4mo. It never even crossed my mind to use any type of pedal assist (I have access to one). Its not because I'm tougher than anyone else (I'm a wimp), but when my body is old, broken, worn out, and used up, THEN an e-bike will be a consideration. Until then though, I'll count my blessings and pedal till I bonk.
 
Worth it. Can do Six Mile full loop in 30 min at 27.8 mph.
I know this was said with tongue in cheek... I hope... but an eMTB won't help you turn quicker, go downhill faster, jump further, or negotiate the gnar better. Past 20 mph you're on your own power so all it can do is help you climb easier and maybe a little faster. So unless your entire run is uphill you won't realize significant increase in your lap time. Of course I'm only assuming since I've never actually ridden an eMTB but this is the impression I got from talking to someone who's been riding one for over 1400 miles so far on his Haibike.
 
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I know this was said with tongue in cheek... I hope... but an eMTB won't help you turn quicker, go downhill faster, jump further, or negotiate the gnar better. Past 20 mph you're on your own power so all it can do is help you climb easier and maybe a little faster. So unless your entire run is uphill you won't realize significant increase in your lap time. Of course I'm only assuming since I've never actually ridden an eMTB but this is the impression I got from talking to someone who's been riding one for over 1400 miles so far on his Haibike.
I rode an Ebike up in Stowe Vermont last summer. I probably only did 5 miles, I rentted them for my kids, they were 11 and 13. I would be much faster on an ebike with any loop, climbing or not. They just gave such a great boost and it’s sooooo much easier to keep up speed. You almost coast uphill, I’m all for em!
 
I know this was said with tongue in cheek... I hope... but an eMTB won't help you turn quicker, go downhill faster, jump further, or negotiate the gnar better. Past 20 mph you're on your own power so all it can do is help you climb easier and maybe a little faster. So unless your entire run is uphill you won't realize significant increase in your lap time. Of course I'm only assuming since I've never actually ridden an eMTB but this is the impression I got from talking to someone who's been riding one for over 1400 miles so far on his Haibike.
It wont help you snap out of the 150 corners at six mile?
Sure, cornering technique is a major player but I just dont see how it wouldnt help with a faster lap time. I checked my 6 mile ride from Tuesday and I was over 20mph a few times. While 6 mile doesnt have any proper hills, it has enough ups that the ebike would help considerably. I would venture to say it will take 10-15 mins off the full lap time.
 
It wont help you snap out of the 150 corners at six mile?
Sure, cornering technique is a major player but I just dont see how it wouldnt help with a faster lap time. I checked my 6 mile ride from Tuesday and I was over 20mph a few times. While 6 mile doesnt have any proper hills, it has enough ups that the ebike would help considerably. I would venture to say it will take 10-15 mins off the full lap time.
I'm not saying an eMTB won't help with lap times. I'm just saying the improvement isn't as drastic as suggested (full loop in 30 minutes). How quickly a rider can turn corners is limited to their ability to handle a bike and negotiate turns. Many will slow down before a turn to a speed that they're comfortable with. Having an eMTB may help you get to the turn sooner but you'll still have to slow down to a comfortable speed which is probably the same speed as if you're on a regular MTB. Same with going downhill and hitting bumps. eMTBs is not a substitute for skill. Yes, you will have faster lap times but not as drastic as suggested, especially when there are sections that requires skill rather than speed.
 
It wont help you snap out of the 150 corners at six mile?
it wont, its a drag actually. At least with the Moterra I rode. Start at 0 mph in turbo mode and ya, you feel the torque....But you enter a turn at 6mr at say 10mph, that 600w power boost cant match me standing and throwing down say 5 pedal strokes....not even close. You need to have the bike in just the right gear to get it to really pull you out of a corner....Its very heavy and 600w isnt exactly mind blowing power. I rode this one trail at DMR 4 times....its was a very 6mr style segment....could not get close to my time with my scalpel. Its just too heavy and doesnt accelerate hard enough.....Nothing wrong with this, im just stating this for the people who still think they are anything like a motorcycle....
e-bike ~600w of power
my old CRF 450 ~40,000w of power...no comparison.
 
it wont, its a drag actually. At least with the Moterra I rode. Start at 0 mph in turbo mode and ya, you feel the torque....But you enter a turn at 6mr at say 10mph, that 600w power boost cant match me standing and throwing down say 5 pedal strokes....not even close. You need to have the bike in just the right gear to get it to really pull you out of a corner....Its very heavy and 600w isnt exactly mind blowing power. I rode this one trail at DMR 4 times....its was a very 6mr style segment....could not get close to my time with my scalpel. Its just too heavy and doesnt accelerate hard enough.....Nothing wrong with this, im just stating this for the people who still think they are anything like a motorcycle....
e-bike ~600w of power
my old CRF 450 ~40,000w of power...no comparison.
My only reference is the ones I rode aorund the test track at the philly bike expo, which was a few straight aways and some turns. My son had really no issue getting up to 20mph within a few pedal strokes out of a corner. Obviously the tech is advancing quickly and, like anything with a motor, people will figure out how to remove the limiters / make them go faster / accelerate quicker and such. I am not saying it is a motorcycle, but people wouldnt ride them if they made you go slower.
 
Give the people what they want.

Apparently there is a demand for Ebikes if there selling them, personally I think it's lame for the non elderly and folks without health issues to ride them but honestly who gives a shit what I think you should be riding. For the record I think Fat bikes are stupid too and a lot of music they play on the radio sucks...but again who am I to tell you what to do...and do I really want a world where everyone shares my exact point of view as well as likes and dislikes.

You shouldn't have to justify what kind of bike you ride to anyone, do your thing, people are gonna have their opinions, right or wrong, it don't matter. Nothing matters, it's not over until we say it's over...who's with me???
This kind of reminded me of the speech at the end of Revenge of the Nerds where everyone joins up with the nerds on the water fountain. @pooriggy I am a Nerd

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...E68909BD584E7A903D8DE68&FORM=VIRE&adlt=strict
 
For anyone with health issues, it's not the speed it's the ease or ability of riding vs. not riding at all.
I am not denying that, but the popularity in Europe is for people riding them at bike parks. Those people arent riding them because they go slower. The ability to go faster is the overall issue with access.
 
My only reference is the ones I rode aorund the test track at the philly bike expo, which was a few straight aways and some turns. My son had really no issue getting up to 20mph within a few pedal strokes out of a corner. Obviously the tech is advancing quickly and, like anything with a motor, people will figure out how to remove the limiters / make them go faster / accelerate quicker and such. I am not saying it is a motorcycle, but people wouldnt ride them if they made you go slower.
in fairness, your son probably weighs 100lbs less than my fat ass lol.
i have to say, I had a ball riding this one....and my ave HR for the ride was the same as any average ride I do....But i think of where it would be most fun for me....say like an enduro setting....Having the bike be able to pull you up the hill and then you can just fast forward to the good parts....I mean it sounds neat, but even at a smooth place like kingdom, i cant see the e-bike i tried matching my regular 130mm trigger on a downhill in terms of speed. Too big, turns too slow, etc...its the weight of 2 bikes but still using 1 bikes suspension and brakes.

really, i recommend everyone trying one on something other than a parking lot, it changed my perspective of them
 
in fairness, your son probably weighs 100lbs less than my fat ass lol.
i have to say, I had a ball riding this one....and my ave HR for the ride was the same as any average ride I do....But i think of where it would be most fun for me....say like an enduro setting....Having the bike be able to pull you up the hill and then you can just fast forward to the good parts....I mean it sounds neat, but even at a smooth place like kingdom, i cant see the e-bike i tried matching my regular 130mm trigger on a downhill in terms of speed. Too big, turns too slow, etc...its the weight of 2 bikes but still using 1 bikes suspension and brakes.

really, i recommend everyone trying one on something other than a parking lot, it changed my perspective of them
So overall, your suggesting you won’t go faster? IDK the entire market but slower overall doesn’t sound like a selling point.
 
So overall, your suggesting you won’t go faster? IDK the entire market but slower overall doesn’t sound like a selling point.
im saying give me a section of 6mr thats flat and winding, or a downhill and I wont go faster...I mean I tried over and over to beat my times and I could not. However, I would say that im not the target market of an e-bike. For example, I like to ride from my house just to go hit the new red down at split rock...so like a 40min ride over to hit a 3min DH....I could get there way faster, I could complete the loop faster....but on the 3min downhill portion, I would be slower....so F that.
 
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