Hartshorne/Huber Conditions

A bunch of random thoughts on this subject, many of which I've mentioned in the past:

- "Sustainable" is a relative term. I've been riding Hartshorne for almost 30 years, and many of the trails were there long before I started, so they've mostly held up pretty well.

- Objectively, the problem areas affect less than 20% (maybe more like 5-10%) of the total trail length.

- The Park System is deliberately cautious in their approach to re-routing or making new trails. The last major project was adding the Rocky Point section, which was close to 20 years ago (I think). Some trails were closed (anyone remember Three Hills?), and nature hasn't totally reclaimed them yet. There is also a goal of preserving habitats for wildlife, so cutting new trails through untracked forest is unlikely to happen.

- Fixing eroded trails is a big engineering effort. Bringing in fresh dirt from an outside source is expensive and doesn't always work. The soil composition at Hartshorne is actually pretty good - way less sandy than Allaire, with a decent mix of rocks and roots to hold it together. The Park's approach has always been to maintain the trails without bringing in outside materials. I'm sure the Park has budget issues, too.

- "Fall line" trails are part of what make Hartshorne fun (at least for me). Not sure what the solution is. I'm sure some trails will have to closed eventually.

- Rogue trail building is bad. The fact that it's being done by so-called mountain bikers is bad for us.

- Changing weather patterns are making it worse. Weeks-long droughts turn the trails to soft sand and torrential rains wash it away. Is it me, or is torrential rain the only kind we get anymore?

- The Park schedules a handful of TM sessions a year at Hartshorne. They're usually pretty well-attended (20-30 people), but virtually no mountain bikers show up. Everyone I've interacted with at the Park has been great, and is receptive to input. Not sure what the exact history was between the Park and JORBA, or if it really matters.

I doubt that we as a group could agree on what needs to be done, so I guess we'll just keep on riding (and bitching).
 
SmooveP said:
Everyone I've interacted with at the Park has been great, and is receptive to input but does not want to deviate from past practices.
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Ftfy;)
This thread, with this theme pops up every year about this time(late summer)...go back and look.
@SmooveP I agree with everything u said, the trails at Hartshorne will survive. The Rocky Point section was built because a ranger that worked there at the time pushed for it, he was a mtber.
The reason a lot of mtbers do not attend TM at Hartshorne is because they want their efforts to be meaningful and improve the trail system they use. I don't foresee an increase in mtber volunteers until better building practices are adopted.

Currently the MCPS has no issues with trail conditions at Hartshorne and is not seeking to remedy any situations here and there is not much we can do about it. I accept it, know what to expect and put my TM hours in else where. I still ride there...it is what it is.
 
pooriggy said:
Ftfy;)
This thread, with this theme pops up every year about this time(late summer)...go back and look.
@SmooveP I agree with everything u said, the trails at Hartshorne will survive. The Rocky Point section was built because a ranger that worked there at the time pushed for it, he was a mtber.
The reason a lot of mtbers do not attend TM at Hartshorne is because they want their efforts to be meaningful and improve the trail system they use. I don't foresee an increase in mtber volunteers until better building practices are adopted.

Currently the MCPS has no issues with trail conditions at Hartshorne and is not seeking to remedy any situations here and there is not much we can do about it. I accept it, know what to expect and put my TM hours in else where. I still ride there...it is what it is.
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Well said. I got shit a few years back seeing if anyone wanted to ride hartshorne in the rain.Bad etiquette I guess but hartshorne is one of the few trail systems you won’t ruin or even make worse by riding when wet. I rode there today on good fitness and have never seen it this eroded from the last storm. I couldn’t make the last root section of the water tower climb because the roots were undermined a good 4-6 more inches. It was actually sketchy as F going down bone buster bing bong. Some enduro dude was making sand berms(you don’t need berms in sand) on the water tower descent. What @SmooveP said is correct. Only maybe 5-10% of trails are affected. MCPS doesn’t really have a clue as far as trail maintenance. I appreciate the effort but it’s like putting out a forest fire with a super soaker. The water bars they made will spit you over the bars and are only going to get deeper. They are difficult to see on real fast sections.
 
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David Taylor said:
Well said. I got shit a few years back seeing if anyone wanted to ride hartshorne in the rain.Bad etiquette I guess but hartshorne is one of the few trail systems you won’t ruin or even make worse by riding when wet. I rode there today on good fitness and have never seen it this eroded from the last storm. I couldn’t make the last root section of the water tower climb because the roots were undermined a good 4-6 more inches. It was actually sketchy as F going down bone buster bing bong. Some enduro dude was making sand berms(you don’t need berms in sand) on the water tower descent. What @SmooveP said is correct. Only maybe 5-10% of trails are affected. MCPS doesn’t really have a clue as far as trail maintenance. I appreciate the effort but it’s like putting out a forest fire with a super soaker. The water bars they made will spit you over the bars and are only going to get deeper. They are difficult to see on real fast sections.
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It's not clear to me who's doing the water bars, but some of them are treacherous, with flat rocks embedded in dirt with sharp edges facing up. The park doesn't really do TM on their own. It's primarily the volunteer work. BUT, I did see an official looking crew of 5 or 6 people wearing hard hats and vests doing some work on the Laurel Ridge downhill section that ends at the Buttermilk lot (this was a month or so ago). Maybe college or high school students? Who was the "enduro dude" making berms? Sounds like chainsaw guy.

I'm not gonna badmouth the park people. They're not mountain bikers, and neither are the volunteers, so we can't really expect them to focus on things that we care about. I'm pretty sure if we showed up at tM in numbers, we could have some impact. Complaining here does diddly.
 
SmooveP said:
It's not clear to me who's doing the water bars, but some of them are treacherous, with flat rocks embedded in dirt with sharp edges facing up. The park doesn't really do TM on their own. It's primarily the volunteer work. BUT, I did see an official looking crew of 5 or 6 people wearing hard hats and vests doing some work on the Laurel Ridge downhill section that ends at the Buttermilk lot (this was a month or so ago). Maybe college or high school students? Who was the "enduro dude" making berms? Sounds like chainsaw guy.

I'm not gonna badmouth the park people. They're not mountain bikers, and neither are the volunteers, so we can't really expect them to focus on things that we care about. I'm pretty sure if we showed up at tM in numbers, we could have some impact. Complaining here does diddly.
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Right. Tracy said that JORBA hasn’t really offered to help.
 
David Taylor said:
Well said. I got shit a few years back seeing if anyone wanted to ride hartshorne in the rain.Bad etiquette I guess but hartshorne is one of the few trail systems you won’t ruin or even make worse by riding when wet. I rode there today on good fitness and have never seen it this eroded from the last storm. I couldn’t make the last root section of the water tower climb because the roots were undermined a good 4-6 more inches. It was actually sketchy as F going down bone buster bing bong. Some enduro dude was making sand berms(you don’t need berms in sand) on the water tower descent. What @SmooveP said is correct. Only maybe 5-10% of trails are affected. MCPS doesn’t really have a clue as far as trail maintenance. I appreciate the effort but it’s like putting out a forest fire with a super soaker. The water bars they made will spit you over the bars and are only going to get deeper. They are difficult to see on real fast sections.
Click to expand...

Well said indeed. I have actually come to appreciate that Harts can be ridden when other parks can't. I think it's actually better when the sand is wet. Bikes do no real damage. Yeah, bone buster was pretty messed up. Some hikers got a kick out of watching me ride down.
SmooveP said:
It's not clear to me who's doing the water bars, but some of them are treacherous, with flat rocks embedded in dirt with sharp edges facing up. The park doesn't really do TM on their own. It's primarily the volunteer work. BUT, I did see an official looking crew of 5 or 6 people wearing hard hats and vests doing some work on the Laurel Ridge downhill section that ends at the Buttermilk lot (this was a month or so ago). Maybe college or high school students? Who was the "enduro dude" making berms? Sounds like chainsaw guy.

I'm not gonna badmouth the park people. They're not mountain bikers, and neither are the volunteers, so we can't really expect them to focus on things that we care about. I'm pretty sure if we showed up at tM in numbers, we could have some impact. Complaining here does diddly.
Click to expand...

I've seen the "official looking" crew on 2 occasions a few weeks back. They all wear blue shirts and yellow hard hats. I tried to talk to them once but they looked at me like I was from Mars. I wasn't able to determine their organization. Definitely high school or college aged kids.

I don't want to badmouth the parks people or volunteers either. The reality is they make it difficult to volunteer. I am not able to make it to the required volunteer orientation meetings as I live 40 minutes from the park, have a 5 year old son, etc. Whatever. I work 5 minutes from the park. I ride there at least 3 times per week on average. I would love to see improvements. I would love to chip in. The sad part is despite some misguided efforts, the "Chainsaw Guy" has done more meaningful maintenance than the official crews. I'm not trying to defend him at all but he did trim a lot of brush back several weeks ago while supposed "official" crews were installing pointy rocks across the trails.

Yeah. The fall line trails are fun. There is no denying that. Going up is tough but makes you better. Going down puts a smile on your face.
 
And for the record my original post was not intended to stir the pot. It was merely to let others know that the trails have changed. Some guys like to let it rip so I didn't want to see anyone get caught off guard. I actually like the way it is. I am fine if the county does nothing to these trails. I never have remorse riding Harts or Huber. You can't damage these trails. It's a go to place when the weather is shitty.
 
sptimmy43 said:
Well said indeed. I have actually come to appreciate that Harts can be ridden when other parks can't. I think it's actually better when the sand is wet. Bikes do no real damage. Yeah, bone buster was pretty messed up. Some hikers got a kick out of watching me ride down.


I've seen the "official looking" crew on 2 occasions a few weeks back. They all wear blue shirts and yellow hard hats. I tried to talk to them once but they looked at me like I was from Mars. I wasn't able to determine their organization. Definitely high school or college aged kids.

I don't want to badmouth the parks people or volunteers either. The reality is they make it difficult to volunteer. I am not able to make it to the required volunteer orientation meetings as I live 40 minutes from the park, have a 5 year old son, etc. Whatever. I work 5 minutes from the park. I ride there at least 3 times per week on average. I would love to see improvements. I would love to chip in. The sad part is despite some misguided efforts, the "Chainsaw Guy" has done more meaningful maintenance than the official crews. I'm not trying to defend him at all but he did trim a lot of brush back several weeks ago while supposed "official" crews were installing pointy rocks across the trails.

Yeah. The fall line trails are fun. There is no denying that. Going up is tough but makes you better. Going down puts a smile on your face.
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I've seen that crew too, I'm temped to send an email to the park systems to find out whom they are.
Next time I see them, I'll ask them.
 
Rode Huber this morning. Trails are in pretty good shape overall, but there's a seriously deep washout where the trail crosses Brown's Dock Rd.
 
SmooveP said:
Rode Huber this morning. Trails are in pretty good shape overall, but there's a seriously deep washout where the trail crosses Brown's Dock Rd.
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How is Huber? Never rode it. How does it compare to Hart’s ? Saw the map and looks like you can get some decent mileage in there.
 
johnnyrides said:
How is Huber? Never rode it. How does it compare to Hart’s ? Saw the map and looks like you can get some decent mileage in there.
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I would describe it as "Hartshorne light" - similar appearance and trail surface, but much smaller hills. A full loop is around 5 miles, so much smaller. Good to tack onto a Hartshorne ride for a warm-up or some extra mileage.
 
The misses and I rode Huber this evening; it’s in pretty good shape with no puddles and a few soft spots. As others have said significant erosion over the past few weeks with soft sand deposited at the bottom of several climbs. Quite a bit of horse poop on the trails so watch out you don’t want that spraying on you in a fast corner...
 
We got out to Hartshorne today, weather was good. Hearts is like an old friend that you have not seen in a while (we have not been here for 6-7 weeks) as it ages it seems to need more and more work. The trails are pretty beat but also like an old friend... fun! It's in need off maintenance though.
 
sptimmy43 said:
I've seen the "official looking" crew on 2 occasions a few weeks back. They all wear blue shirts and yellow hard hats. I tried to talk to them once but they looked at me like I was from Mars. I wasn't able to determine their organization. Definitely high school or college aged kids.
Click to expand...
knobbyhead said:
I've seen that crew too, I'm temped to send an email to the park systems to find out whom they are.
Next time I see them, I'll ask them.
Click to expand...
Read elsewhere that it's the Student Conservation Association
 
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