Garmin Connect Switch to Bing Maps

Norm

Mayor McCheese
Team MTBNJ Halter's
Jimmy pointed it out here:
http://www.mtbnj.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20023

Looks like Google has been swapped out with Bing. There's a thread on the Garmin message boards about it:
https://forums.garmin.com/showthread.php?t=13826

Nobody has posted anything positive in that comment thread. And nobody from Garmin is stepping up with any comments.

I'd say this is a step in the wrong direction. Someone mentioned using trainingpeaks.com to get the Google maps, which is great in theory but they simply don't have the interface there. I like GC but I have to admit that it's more routine than anything. At this point, it offers very little in my training. The ability to search the map is still solid, but the maps just aren't as good, aren't as easy to navigate, and have fewer features.

What says you? Am I missing some awesomeness here? I didn't see any sort of press release from Garmin so I'm guessing they knew it wasn't going to be popular.
 

rlb

Well-Known Member
I'm not a garmin user, but I do use GC a lot to look at at download routes. And Bing maps will make that experience less pleasant. I don't see why they would make that change. The only thing bing has going for them is the "birds eye" aerials which don't do much good in the woods, but can help you out on the roads.

Google maps POI database (while not always correct) blows them away, and the google look and feel has become the standard these days so it seems like a strange move.

On the other hand, I've read that google changes the maps API at the drop of a hat so maybe they broke something and garmin got tired of keeping up and trying to fix things each time google makde a change.
 

soundz

The Hat
Team MTBNJ Halter's
I don't have a huge issue with it, although it's kind of annoying for a few reasons:

1) No terrain view - I guess I could load it into everytrail or something else if I really wanted that.
2) The color of the parks don't really stand out because they are all kind of beige color.

I hardly use the satellite view, so I don't have a problem with the claimed "loss of detail". I guess I would be annoyed if I lived in Japan or something since Bing doesn't seem to include town names in English.

If they added Bing's bird's eye view, that would have been a plus, but they didn't add that.

Also, when they were using Google, I sometimes wished they would have the street view. I used to open up another windows with regular Google Maps and matched it up I'm planning my road routes. Now it will be slightly harder to match up in 2 different maps.

Not sure why they decided to change it. Google Maps is supposed to be free for public sites .. but maybe they charge $ if you get a sh*t-ton of traffic:

http://code.google.com/apis/maps/faq.html#hightrafficsite

I find that's it's just more convenient to use whatever the majority of people use, so I'll probably keep on using Garmin Connect unless the masses shift to something else.
 

stb222

Love Drunk
Jerk Squad
Outside of just liking google better than microsoft, I am impartial on the difference in functionality of viewing the maps within GC. I am also not a huge fan of googles quest to have the latest and greatest aerials and just take them whenever the can. The probem with this is that they will hire some one to take aerial photos during the summer time, during "leaf on" conditions, making any kind of wooden area just look like a bunch of trees, ie useless when trying to see trails of even roads. While bing may do this also, google just seems to buy up more. You can still export a KML and diaplay the stuff in Google maps if you really want to. I just downloaded some route from the past couple of days and didn't notice an major difference in what I typically look at map wise.
 

ADoug

Active Member
Considering how much Microsoft is trying to push Bing, I wouldn't be surprised if they're getting some extra money for the switch. I could be entirely wrong, but Microsoft has been pushing Bing in several different locations (standard search on some smartphones, etc.)
 

kush

Active Member
Makes no difference to me.

If they can use Microsoft money to reinvest in better functionality and reporting, then it's a win.
 

UtahJoe

Team Workhorse
Team MTBNJ Halter's
Im not a fan of the bing maps either and I much prefer google. That said, I dont think I use the map in garmin connect for much. I do make GPX routes using google maps and this shouldnt interfere with doing that. I agree that it is a step in the wrong direction though
 

Deezul

New Member
I love love love the aerial photos from Bing though. The sat photos from both don't show nearly the detail that the aerials do on Bing.
 

alex_k

Well-Known Member
I love love love the aerial photos from Bing though. The sat photos from both don't show nearly the detail that the aerials do on Bing.

I like how they look for 6 Mile Run but they absolutely useless for Allamuchy North.

EDIT: I mean "Bird's eye"
 

Norm

Mayor McCheese
Team MTBNJ Halter's
The biggest problem I see in this is when I explore for routes. In planning my trip to Taiwan, I often use the browse feature to look at possible routes. This still works, but Bing does not mark county roads in any way, where Google does. So the big yellow lines that were on the map when I explored are now gone. In Bing they appear to be county borders, which I think is useless. It was nice knowing where the big roads were in relation to what you were looking at.

Not a huge loss, since I don't live in Taiwan and once I get the initial mental road map in my head down I won't care that the feature isn't there anymore. But it's a loss of service, and certainly looks like a red flag in terms of the overall direction.

I do agree with kush that if this adds money to the development pot and things get better in other areas, it could be a win in the long run. But my observation is that too often these days, things like this are geared towards improving the bottom line and stock price, and public service is really a secondary aim.

If you look at that thread, it's clear that they really didn't think of the rest of the world when they did this. People chiming in from Europe that Bing doesn't work there.

The style of the official answer is pretty weak:
http://jahia.garmin.com/garmin/cms/site/us/support/searchsupport?src_url=http%3A%2F%2Fiqc.garmin.com%2FeCustomer%2FKODSelfService%2Frequest.do%3Fcreate%3Dkb%3Agarmin%26view%28%29%3Dc{35e4dbf0-f2a9-11df-e5b4-000000000000}

Question: Why is Garmin Connect using Bing Maps?
Answer:

Garmin has a rich history of collaborating with industry leaders. Using Bing maps with Garmin Connect provided an opportunity for Garmin Connect users to continue to enjoy all of the familiar mapping features and functions that bring more than 40 million saved activities to life and more exciting developments will be rolled out in the future.
Last modified on: 11/17/2010
 

BiknBen

Well-Known Member
Not sure why they decided to change it. Google Maps is supposed to be free for public sites .. but maybe they charge $ if you get a sh*t-ton of traffic:

I have just limited knowledge of GC's transition to Bing but this comment grabbed my attention. Google Maps/Earth are free to the end user or for personal use. When I was in a consulting environment that wanted to use Google Earth. It would have cost the company hundreds of thousands of dollars. Basically, if your use is intended to generate revenue, you better be ready to pay for Google Maps. :eek:
 

stb222

Love Drunk
Jerk Squad
I have just limited knowledge of GC's transition to Bing but this comment grabbed my attention. Google Maps/Earth are free to the end user or for personal use. When I was in a consulting environment that wanted to use Google Earth. It would have cost the company hundreds of thousands of dollars. Basically, if your use is intended to generate revenue, you better be ready to pay for Google Maps. :eek:

The developers at the company I work for has used Google Maps specifically because it did not cost any money. I don't know the nitty gritty, but I believe the there is a loophole that the Google Maps Module (API?) is free to use as long as the website you use it on is availble to the public. This was a major concern for the state agency we were doing work for and in the end they are not paying a dime for the service when you are using the API to simply display data, similar to garmin's situation where you are just representing data points on a map.

That being said, I can't beleive that Garmin isn't paying Google/Bing.
 

rlb

Well-Known Member
Question: Why is Garmin Connect using Bing Maps?
Answer:

Garmin has a rich history of collaborating with industry leaders, and using Bing maps with Garmin Connect provided an opportunity to build upon our existing relationship with Microsoft.

Garmin Connect users will continue to enjoy all of the familiar mapping features and functions that bring more than 40 million saved activities to life, and working with Bing will lead to more exciting developments in the future.
Last modified on: 11/18/2010
Looks like they updated the answer. And I read that as Microsoft strong-arming garmin into using Bing instead of Google. What was the existing relationship? Is Microsoft developing garmin's desktop software?
 

rlb

Well-Known Member
When I was in a consulting environment that wanted to use Google Earth. It would have cost the company hundreds of thousands of dollars. Basically, if your use is intended to generate revenue, you better be ready to pay for Google Maps. :eek:

I think you only pay to use the more robust version of Google Earth. Pretty much every computer in my office is running GE free version, so I'm assuming that using the free version is fine for business, you just don't get all of the extras of the paid version.
 

rlb

Well-Known Member
Workaround to view your tracks in Google

View a track on Garmin Connect. We can use a track from Norm as an example

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/56692377

Copy the activity ID (bold part of the link above) and use it to replace replace activity_id in the link below and the track is visible in Google.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=http://connect.garmin.com/proxy/activity-service-1.0/kml/activity/activity_id?full=true

Example: (the link keeps getting truncated, just click it...)
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=http:...y-service-1.0/kml/activity/56692377?full=true

Not my find, it's from https://forums.garmin.com/showthread.php?t=1413


Alternatively, You can still choose to view the track in Google Earth. I bet someone makes a plugin for Mozilla that will allow you to open a KML in Mozilla, and ultimately browses to Google Maps and displays the KML there. Purely speculating on that one, however.
 
Last edited:

J-Dro

Well-Known Member
Looks like they updated the answer. And I read that as Microsoft strong-arming garmin into using Bing instead of Google. What was the existing relationship? Is Microsoft developing garmin's desktop software?

Just like Microsoft is paying companies like Verizon to make Bing the default search option on their Google Android phones, Garmin got paid off to boot Google for mapping services. Pretty simple. It's a war out there.

With every cell phone becoming a capable GPS device lately, who is buying stand-alone GPS's anymore? Garmin has to look for new ways to supplement their bottom line. Their stock is getting hammered as they watch their products become commodity items.
 

soundz

The Hat
Team MTBNJ Halter's
I think some people are getting the Big Aerial View and Bird's Eye View confused. The Bing Aerial view is more or less the same as the Google Satellite view.

The Bing Bird's Eye View is something different, they took photographs from a plane flying over-head at an angle and you can see things in much more detail than the Aerial view. Garmin Connect has not included Bird's Eye View. I'm guessing that they didn't add it in because I don't think the red line will be very accurate on that view or if it's even display-able, so it might confuse some users. From a coding stand point, it's very easy to add in that button .. like 1 line of code.
 

alex_k

Well-Known Member
I think some people are getting the Big Aerial View and Bird's Eye View confused. The Bing Aerial view is more or less the same as the Google Satellite view.

The Bing Bird's Eye View is something different, they took photographs from a plane flying over-head at an angle and you can see things in much more detail than the Aerial view. Garmin Connect has not included Bird's Eye View. I'm guessing that they didn't add it in because I don't think the red line will be very accurate on that view or if it's even display-able, so it might confuse some users. From a coding stand point, it's very easy to add in that button .. like 1 line of code.

Bird's Eye View was available this morning but not anymore!
 

rlb

Well-Known Member
Sounds is correct t about the accuracy of the GPS track on top of birds eye imagery. That type got photo is called oblique and its much more difficult to correct the distortion and "georefernce" (assign coordinates to) that type of image. Look at how poorly they line up with the street centerlines, which are fairly spatially accurate
 
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