Discussion: Is cyclocross dying?

[StayHydrated]

Was waiting to weigh in on this because I'm totally new to 'cross and the NJ bike scene in general and haven't ridden enough prior to this summer to comment on anything bike related. Nonetheless: some comments, and some questions. Feel free to tell me I'm a big dumb idiot (pro tip: I AM).

----------

Comment 1: Course design is definitely noticed by non-cyclist/casual-cyclist spectators. My girlfriend (unbelievably) wakes up at 6am with me and comes to races. She enjoys spectating, rail trails, and will even watch Le Tour during the summer or CX World Cup races when I stream them, but I don't think you'd ever get her to race a bicycle. She commented without prompt that Bubble was the most fun course that she'd been to as a spectator, and that she liked that there were so many different features. She especially liked the sand and people falling down in it (see video in race report thread, apparently I'm included in that cohort). She also enjoys and appreciates seeing the skill progression as the day goes on, and will comment about how people can just power through the sand or their pure speed off of the line (beer tent @ Hippo was awesome for watching and appreciating starts). As was mentioned on the podcast, maybe factoring the spectators into course design will bring more non-competitive bodies out.

Comment 2: Cross races have thus far been appreciated by the non-cyclists in my life. We dragged a bunch of friends to Hippo, and got half of my extended family to roll deep to MartyCX. Everyone has loved the environment, the insanity of the discipline, the beer tent (at Hippo). I even had my mom and my girlfriend doing Fig Newton handups (which apparently no one took except me? but were they doing them right?) at Hippo. People are excited to come out to other races next year. My over-60 uncle has even expressed interest into busting out his bike and mixing it up in Cat 5. Side note: everyone at Hippo LOVED @seanrunnette on the mic. They continue to talk about it when telling stories to other friends/family members. Let's clone him and have him announce every race.

Comment 3: There are A LOT of races. And they're an investment. I only raced 3 times this year, and had a much busier schedule than expected, but I have no idea how people downselect to get to their final season schedule, or how some of you warriors pull double weekends for a month (or more) straight. I know I definitely need to work on dragging my ass out of bed and actually do some pre-riding/warming up because I totally phone that part in, but you could easily spend entire weekends for pretty much the whole season sitting on a bicycle with a number pinned on. It feels a little overwhelming, actually. Remind me that I said this when the person I described above is me next year.

Comment 4: Cross is addicting. I'm totally hooked. I'm trying get others to try the gateway drug too. I have friends who don't really ride bikes, but I'm trying to entice them with tales of waffles and beer and getting to heckle others (that last one is surprisingly attractive to people, you have no idea). Everyone should get to have this much fun on a bicycle. I'm already thinking about next year. I need to pull as many other people into the madness as I can. I especially love doing my own partying, even if "the scene is dead" (see: MartyCX "tailgate at the barn" - if you were there, back me up on this). I just want to make everything extra fun and see everyone have a blast and eat waffles, that's all.

----------

Question 1: Did I really miss the glory days? I keep hearing things like "RIP USGP @ Mercer" and "dirt critz suxxx" and "WTF there's no scene anymore". I'm kind of a masochist so I feel like I would have really loved courses where I felt even more in-over-my-head than I already feel, shouldering and running up/over/across features from hell, racing in calf deep mud or the snow, etc. If I really did miss the glory days, then what's the point? Or are the glory days now since there is a Cat 5 class and so many races to choose from?

Question 2: What can I, me, myself, this Cat 5 scrub, do to help the scene? I am purchasing a portable grill/stove during the off season, and I'm looking to score a pop-up tent if I find a sweet deal. I already try to get people out when I can, and I have a few friends who still have not experienced the madness and are planning on coming to at least one race next year. Do I slave over the hot waffle iron and crank out more yeasty goodness? Do I rope unsuspecting friends into poorly riding my mountain bike and getting in over their heads? I love all of the fun parts of everything, and so I really want to know what people think the average Tim could do to help the scene. I JUST WANT TO MAX OUT ON FUN, GUYS.

Question 3: Is it wrong to want to try out these big, mythical races like KMC, Gloucester, Charm City, DCCX, Nittany? Or to want to go to these beer-centric events like Stoudts and Sly Fox? If my contribution can be to actually stay local and go to only NJ events, then I'll do it. It just seems like everything I mentioned is so...cool? I mean, I would miss tailgating and all that stuff, but those races have a scene so I really wouldn't need to worry about that anyway. However, half of the fun is being there with people you know, which wouldn't be the case for some of those (I know some people travel to those races, but family and non-bike friends are 99.9% not driving to Mass. or DC to watch me flail around on a bicycle for 35 minutes).

Question 4: Does it continue to be this fun when you're not Cat 5? I feel like I'm going to be Cat 5 4eva (5eva? amidoingthisrite?). But, in the event that I actually learn how to ride a bicycle properly and upgrade, will it continue to be this fun? Is it more fun?

Question 5: Will I ever be good at "The Cross"? (Plz say yes) If the scene is really turning into GrassCrits.biz then I feel like I don't stand a chance...I fear I'll never make any real power (although I plan on actually preparing for next year, starting with this BIYF I've been told so much about), and I always thought that my masochistic side that wants to run up huge hills in the rain carrying a bicycle is what would make me semi-okay at this discipline. Is that part of what may be turning off Cat 5s and not having them come back?


Sorry for many words. Please don't hate me for my incoherent text wall.

 

[The Squirrel]

Call me crazy, and maybe there's a reason something like this hasn't happened in the past, but could a promoter have a non-sanctioned category within a sanctioned event? I was listening to the recent podcast and all of a sudden the idea of a 4-person relay race came to mind. 4 laps (for instance), one rider each lap with a switch in the pits. The only caveat would be one bike. You could change wheels, but it has to be the same frame for all 4 laps. The single frame also creates a "handicap" in a way as it might be hard to find 4 riders of equivalent size, maybe even mixing genders to make it work better for your team. A taller, more powerful rider might be forced to do most of their lap standing because of the handicap. Since you're only doing one lap, each lap would be breakneck speed because you'd have the ability to burn the entire matchbook in one lap. I think from a spectators standpoint, this would be a blast.

If each NJ race has this regionally unique category (whatever it might be), you could make a separate cup with points, potentially multiplying more riders/fees and drawing riders away from other events within a certain radius. At the least, you might even have more multiple category entrants.

 

[seanrunnette]

Is it wrong to want to try out these big, mythical races like KMC, Gloucester, Charm City, DCCX, Nittany?

Holy sh*t, that was a WALL! And no, it's not wrong.
I was at the second day of Verge NOHO this weekend and was amazed at how deep the whole experience was. People didn't split after their races. (Truth: I did, but we had to be back in NJ by 6, w/a detour through Lee.) Three food trucks, a tiny farm to table food trailer (which was killing it) and a guy with a bike powered pastry cart. AND the Cannondale kids doing a fundraiser. AND the Jam Fund with a sausage tent. AND Fox Hills brewery slinging one of the best session IPAs I've ever had.
Did I mention the course crossings were easy to find, well-manned and positioned such that it was possible to get around the course w/out confusion?
Oh, also, the course, while it had it's fair share of fast bits, and the wind was a monster during our race, was technical enuf to flip my bars. I shouldered once per lap.
Jersey is awesome. NECX is awesome. They're different. NOHO has been running in that location for 26 years. It's a different world. DO ALL OF IT! @The Heckler's 40+ race per year schedule isn't something most people can do, but get out there and race everything you can. Then take a break and do it again

could a promoter have a non-sanctioned category within a sanctioned event?

Donut race at last year's Natz - unsanctioned, 4 person mixed team relay... Georgia Gould's team won. That's as kewl as it gets. Also a donut race.

 

[stb222]

Question 4: Does it continue to be this fun when you're not Cat 5? I feel like I'm going to be Cat 5 4eva (5eva? amidoingthisrite?). But, in the event that I actually learn how to ride a bicycle properly and upgrade, will it continue to be this fun? Is it more fun?

The age old question. I think this is where people struggle with it, at least from an outsiders perspective.

 

[seanrunnette]

Will I ever be good at "The Cross"? (Plz say yes)

Yes

 

[Pearl]

Question 1: Did I really miss the glory days? I keep hearing things like "RIP USGP @ Mercer" and "dirt critz suxxx" and "WTF there's no scene anymore". I'm kind of a masochist so I feel like I would have really loved courses where I felt even more in-over-my-head than I already feel, shouldering and running up/over/across features from hell, racing in calf deep mud or the snow, etc. If I really did miss the glory days, then what's the point? Or are the glory days now since there is a Cat 5 class and so many races to choose from?

Everyone is going to say this. Have you heard @UtahJoe talk about the 3 hour Cat 1 XC MTB races? Maybe I'm falling into this category with the original post? Who knows. It seems that we have learned in the recent posts that the numbers are out, its just that they are spread among multiple races in the region, giving the vibe of "no one races anymore". If, a big IF, you could get all these people in one venue for the weekend, It would be a much better scene/vibe for the race. I saw some videos from the SlyFox race, that looked pretty legit.

Question 2: What can I, me, myself, this Cat 5 scrub, do to help the scene? I am purchasing a portable grill/stove during the off season, and I'm looking to score a pop-up tent if I find a sweet deal. I already try to get people out when I can, and I have a few friends who still have not experienced the madness and are planning on coming to at least one race next year. Do I slave over the hot waffle iron and crank out more yeasty goodness? Do I rope unsuspecting friends into poorly riding my mountain bike and getting in over their heads? I love all of the fun parts of everything, and so I really want to know what people think the average Tim could do to help the scene. I JUST WANT TO MAX OUT ON FUN, GUYS.

Not everyone can do this, but I think this has a lot to do with it:
Come early, stay late. Bring a cowbell. Bring friends with extra cowbells. Purchase a megaphone. Make signs. Learn to heckle properly. Sadly, a lot of people take cross seriously, myself included. Norm touched based on this, maybe that is why we think it is dying? Spending more time on warming up and pre-riding instead of contributing to the vibe of the race/scene. I'm in a weird situation now because I only know a handful of people, and heckling is kind of weird It is a vicious circle though. It's hard to just show up and race and have fun for some people, these races mean everything to them. The balance of hardcore CXers and the party CXers that come to hang out and chill seems to be out of wack.

Question 3: Is it wrong to want to try out these big, mythical races like KMC, Gloucester, Charm City, DCCX, Nittany? Or to want to go to these beer-centric events like Stoudts and Sly Fox? If my contribution can be to actually stay local and go to only NJ events, then I'll do it. It just seems like everything I mentioned is so...cool? I mean, I would miss tailgating and all that stuff, but those races have a scene so I really wouldn't need to worry about that anyway. However, half of the fun is being there with people you know, which wouldn't be the case for some of those (I know some people travel to those races, but family and non-bike friends are 99.9% not driving to Mass. or DC to watch me flail around on a bicycle for 35 minutes).

Not at all. I have only been to two of the ones you mentioned, and the others seem way bigger than those two. It will also give you a glimpse at (what I think) is missing from the smaller events. Also racing people you don't know doesn't mentally F you; "Oh I'm behind X person, I need to go faster". People don't know you and you don't know them, you race kind of differently.

Question 4: Does it continue to be this fun when you're not Cat 5? I feel like I'm going to be Cat 5 4eva (5eva? amidoingthisrite?). But, in the event that I actually learn how to ride a bicycle properly and upgrade, will it continue to be this fun? Is it more fun?

Yes, you have different paths. Everyone is different. Some people are party racers and show up to have a good time and not really too worried about results. It's just a good day with friends. The other extreme is you get extremely competitive. Now I'm not saying everyone starts training specifically for cross, but this happens. You have a different outlook on the race, you have a different goal. You race differently. You are faster. You aren't in it for the "oh that was fun". But it is fun. Pushing yourself to the max at the front of a race for X amount of minutes is fun in it's own, sick way.

Question 5: Will I ever be good at "The Cross"? (Plz say yes) If the scene is really turning into GrassCrits.biz then I feel like I don't stand a chance...I fear I'll never make any real power (although I plan on actually preparing for next year, starting with this BIYF I've been told so much about), and I always thought that my masochistic side that wants to run up huge hills in the rain carrying a bicycle is what would make me semi-okay at this discipline. Is that part of what may be turning off Cat 5s and not having them come back?

Will I ever be good at "The Cross", depends on how you approach it. It's on you to upgrade your fitness/bike skills. Whatever you do, keep the "fun" balance. Maybe training for cross isn't fun, but the results are fun.
Sadly, can't figure out that Cat 5 number, if it's upgrading or disappearing.

 

[Santapez]

Few things I'd note on.

On Cat 5, the discussion of race times, the seriousness of the racing etc
There's been some talk about how cross has gotten too serious, and on the last CXHairs podcast they were kind of alluding to it the handups/etc being passe and there's no room for it anymore. I'd like to see both. It's great to watch the fast guys/girls race but it's also great to have people out there that aren't 100% into cross. There's a lot of room for the casual racer that wants to jump in and give it a shot if the opportunity is there.

So along with that, I would think a 10am or so start time for Cat 5 makes way more sense. And they should be heckled. And there should be handups. Because I'd like to see more people get into the racing and it should be supported by the crowds. It's great to get the people on their mountain bikes that just want to toss a few cross races into their year. It's great for whoever wants to give it a shot. For those in the front that are fast, they should be moving up to Cat4 anyway.

I would like to see more un-sanctioned races. As noted the race calendar is huge now. But it would be nice if there was a cheap half assed series. I don't believe most people are racing for points,

On bigger races:
Only big races I've been to were Charm City and Providence. Providence especially made me open my eyes to what's out there for a good time at a race. People/Food/Etc is on such a big scale. It's an event.

Depending on location you can turn the race into a nice weekend getaway. Providence last year we mixed in Newport, RI and tried to hangout in Providence but that kind of failed since we couldn't find parking... Charm City you can mix in Baltimore. DCCX of course has DC. Next year I think DCCX is my must-go-to as it's supposed to be a great event plus I can make a long weekend out of it going to museums and such.

-Steve

 

[StayHydrated]

on the last CXHairs podcast they were kind of alluding to it the handups/etc being passe and there's no room for it anymore

Yeah, hearing them say that made me pretty sad. But they also pointed towards there being a place for handups, pounding solo cups, and costume races at.....

I would like to see more un-sanctioned races.

...unsanctioned races. I would LOVE this. Unfortunately, based on everything said/heard/posted regarding the struggle that it is to put on even 1 day of racing, I'm afraid no one would want to pick up or coordinate a 4-5 race half-ass series. Instead of the DC metro's "Super 8" we could have a "Not-so-super 4"? Maybe something like this could be both an unsanctioned series and a season warm-up series for those who are more series-ous (get it? get it?) in the month of September/for everyone who doesn't want to do a gran fondo?

Based on responses from @pearl and @seanrunnette, it seems like exploring the big races are OK. We're definitely going to go watch Nationals this year, and my girlfriend would totally be on board with making a long weekend out of one of the larger races to the North or South. The Sly Fox race looked like it was poppin' off, too. Will add "marquee race" to my to-do list..maybe for next year, but definitely by the following year.

I'm taking away that, like most other things in life, it's more or less going to be what you make of it. So for me, I'd like to train and do well, but not get so super-serial that I'm no longer inclined to partake in the shenanigans. It's a fine line, and I have trouble with those. Hang on to your hats...

 

[hotsauce]

on the last CXHairs podcast they were kind of alluding to it the handups/etc being passe and there's no room for it anymore

@The Squirrel and I tried to do leftover Halloween candy handups at Bubble day 2 and we couldn't get a single taker. The only thing we accomplished was me eating a lot of Kit Kats.

You can't ban heckling though!!!

 

[Magic]

tried to do leftover Halloween candy handups at Bubble day 2 and we couldn't get a single taker

Everyone is all like:

 

[StayHydrated]

@The Squirrel and I tried to do leftover Halloween candy handups at Bubble day 2 and we couldn't get a single taker.

Wrapped, or unwrapped? If wrapped and they were being serious, why didn't they just grab them and shove them into their jersey pockets? Eh, they get a little melt-y, so what - free candy dammit!

 

[seanrunnette]

I took a donut hand-up at SuperCX two years ago. Nailed it! Right in the mouth at the top of the run-up. Made it around the corner where no one could see me and pretty much vomited the thing onto myself. Not sexy.

 

[jShort]

Wrapped, or unwrapped? If wrapped and they were being serious, why didn't they just grab them and shove them into their jersey pockets? Eh, they get a little melt-y, so what - free candy dammit!

Pockets? No pockets on skinsuits!

 

[hotsauce]

We went unwrapped, hoping to get some takers on the run-up. Those old guys in the masters fields rode the run up so not many people were slow enough to grab anything. @seanrunnette came by a few times with his mouth open pretty wide but I don't think it was for candy.

In hindsight, maybe we should have went wrapped so people could have stuffed them in their pockets/down their jerseys. Would have been risky since hot 3 Musketeers could turn into mini-turds.

I think handups are more hype than reality at this point. I haven't tried in a single speed race which is probably the sweet spot though.

 

[Santapez]

This is why I say cat 5 should be at 10am. You're more likely going to get some guy in a halloween costume and a big beard taking a handup.

 

[StayHydrated]

Pockets? No pockets on skinsuits!

I don't have any cool skinsuits =( BOOOO

 

[Magic]

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/cx-on-the-mtb

 

[MadisonDan]

I took a donut at Horseshoe in the Cat 5 race. It was freezing cold and wet that day. Half the donut really hit the spot, the other Half hit the ground. Also beer. Beer handup at the Lewis Morris MTB challenge a few years ago. Cat 3. Some dude in the woods handing out beers. Come to think of it, that's just weird.

 

[Santapez]

I would like to backup to the comment @pearl made.

No matter what these cross races are a million times better than an XC mountain bike race as far as venue comfort, spectating, etc. The format lends itself to being able to be enjoyed when you're not racing, unlike XC mtb where everyone goes off into the woods.

It's interesting that with all this discussion, it's probably more interesting hanging out at the lamest CX race in December than it is the most exciting XC race in the summer.

 

[stb222]

I would like to backup to the comment @pearl made.

No matter what these cross races are a million times better than an XC mountain bike race as far as venue comfort, spectating, etc. The format lends itself to being able to be enjoyed when you're not racing, unlike XC mtb where everyone goes off into the woods.

It's interesting that with all this discussion, it's probably more interesting hanging out at the lamest CX race in December than it is the most exciting XC race in the summer.

Hold the boat, dude. Let's save the Is XC Mtb Racing Dying? thread for the February time frame.