1speed
Incredibly profound yet fantastically flawed
I got some very disappointing news last night.
Back in January, I bought the 2017 Niner AIR9 RDO. I had wanted a carbon SS for a while, but Niner had discontinued their ONE9 model this year. In fact, the company had consolidated a number of their lines as they began pushing into new territory (e.g., gravel bikes.) Apparently, the RDO was designed to take the place of a number of other models that were SS-compatible and still be a step-up in overall ride quality. Everything I heard about it said it was the lightest and fastest carbon hardtail around (the frame is objectively the lightest MTB frame available, but fastest is of course open to debate.) When I got it, I quickly realized that it was kind of on the cutting edge of what a hardtail can be and I absolutely loved the geometry. I've always been a fan of Niner's geometry for their hardtails, and this bike took all that to a new level.
So all was good in 1speed land ... until it wasn't.
When I first got the bike, the one niggling issue I had was that Niner was out of stock on their Biocentric 30 EBBs, so I had it built up with a ProblemSolvers EBB. Aftermarket EBBs are great but they inevitably start to squeak on you and require regular maintenance. I learned this long ago with my Chinese carbon build (which uses the Beer Components EBB, which is essentially the same design as the PS one.) And sure enough, after a few weeks it started to make noise. So I asked my shop to reserve the Biocentric 30 for me once it was available again, and I swapped out the aftermarket one for Niner's own EBB around maybe late March.
Now, I have had my Niner SIR9 for maybe four or five years now. It runs the standard Biocentric II EBB and aside from one single issue (I stripped the bolts on it and couldn't adjust it before last year's Stewart 45 much to the misery of my knees) the Bio II has been bulletproof. But the RDO has boost spacing, which means it can't accept the Bio II. In fact, the BB shell is way too small to accept it. Niner's solution to this was to create the Biocentric 30 this year, which has integrated ball bearings (unlike the Bio II which is really just a shell for a standard external bearing set.) I think I mentioned all of this in a previous thread, but the Bio 30, I think because it was born out of an engineering problem that created the need for compromise (not really, IMO), had some issues form the start. For one, it was incredibly hard to adjust because there simply wasn't space available to access the bolts if you ran most cranksets:
Accessing those bolts was a PIA.
But ultimately, the real problem proved to be something else entirely, and this is where I was left truly disappointed. Back in April, the first time I raced on the Bio 30 was at uber-slopfest LBD. After that race, I needed the entire thing basically gutted and cleaned. There were fistfuls of mud in the bottom bracket after that horror movie of a day. And after I got it cleaned, my real problems began. I'd ride it for a couple of days and then the same noises I expected from the aftermarket EBB started happening with the Bio 30. And then they became constant. I figured it was just an adjustment needed, so I got that done, and less than a week later it was still quiet, but I discovered the frame had cracked. That's a whole other story in itself, but I did get it warrantied and replaced, but fromthe moment I had the new frame, the noise coming from the EBB was constant and very loud. I tried to get it adjusted twice with no help at all. Finally, I asked my shop to look into it and the answer he got from Niner has left me shaking my head.
According to Niner, this is a problem that will not go away. There's nothing wrong with the frame, but the EBB itself is being squished by the torque of riding it SS and the noise is resulting from that occurring where two differnet materials meet (carbon on the shell and aluminum for the BB itself.) Basically, it will eventually happen again no matter what I do - if I ignore it, I have to live with it now, but if I replace the EBB with a new one and it'll quiet for a while and then happen again. Their recommendation? Run it geared. Seriously, that's what they recommend.
I'm so disappointed, and not even because this happened. What pisses me off is that they seem to have known about it as an issue and still advertise this bike as a SS option. (Incedentally, my shop guy is more pissed that they knew about the frame crack issue and never told anyone that about 10% of their carbon frames would fail under regular stress.) No one wants to ride a bike that noisy. And if they knew this was a problem, why offer it as a solution to run a carbon SS? I'd have been fine looking elsewhere if I knew that the RDO may be the greatest race hardtail out there, but it just isn't compatible to run as a SS yet.
And that "yet" is, I think, where my real disappointment lies. The Bio 30 is a first year model that they thought would work as well as the Bio II. I think part of what I am dealing with is a first generation problem that they didn't see coming. They may solve this in the future, but I have to wait and hope the solution doesn't change the frame now since this is the one I have. Their previous ONE9 frame came with the larger housing to fit the Bio II. The addition of boost spacing seems to have made that impossible, but I'm not sure why. Did they design the frame a specific way and then realize this issue was there and respond by engineering the Bio 30 as a stop gap? Why couldn't they have built the boost spacing around the larger shell to fit their Bio II? Looking at it, it seems like they could have fit the larger BB shell on this frame if they wanted to, and they even had the molds to do it since they JUST discontinued the ONE9 last year! Maybe there are engineering issues I am not considering, and I'd give Niner the benefit of the doubt (1) me not understanding something fully is a typical problem and (2) I've never had real issues with their frames before, but I can't for the life of me figure out why this frame had to be designed the way it was. And if it did, why turn folks like me into unwitting guinea pigs on an unproven design? Why not just say you have no SS option right now? It's not like there are tons of us who would want to ride this SS anyway.
So right now, I'm basically sitting on a very expensive paper weight until I decide whether to just give up on the problem and convert it to a geared bike (which would solve it since that would eliminate the EBB which would eliminate the movement that's causing the noise) or keep replacing the EBB every few months at about $100 a pop and hope the issue doesn't start when I'm 50 miles into a 100 mile race because the noise is really like fingernails on a chalkboard -- I can't ignore it and it drives me nuts when I ride it. Not a great set of choices ...
Back in January, I bought the 2017 Niner AIR9 RDO. I had wanted a carbon SS for a while, but Niner had discontinued their ONE9 model this year. In fact, the company had consolidated a number of their lines as they began pushing into new territory (e.g., gravel bikes.) Apparently, the RDO was designed to take the place of a number of other models that were SS-compatible and still be a step-up in overall ride quality. Everything I heard about it said it was the lightest and fastest carbon hardtail around (the frame is objectively the lightest MTB frame available, but fastest is of course open to debate.) When I got it, I quickly realized that it was kind of on the cutting edge of what a hardtail can be and I absolutely loved the geometry. I've always been a fan of Niner's geometry for their hardtails, and this bike took all that to a new level.
So all was good in 1speed land ... until it wasn't.
When I first got the bike, the one niggling issue I had was that Niner was out of stock on their Biocentric 30 EBBs, so I had it built up with a ProblemSolvers EBB. Aftermarket EBBs are great but they inevitably start to squeak on you and require regular maintenance. I learned this long ago with my Chinese carbon build (which uses the Beer Components EBB, which is essentially the same design as the PS one.) And sure enough, after a few weeks it started to make noise. So I asked my shop to reserve the Biocentric 30 for me once it was available again, and I swapped out the aftermarket one for Niner's own EBB around maybe late March.
Now, I have had my Niner SIR9 for maybe four or five years now. It runs the standard Biocentric II EBB and aside from one single issue (I stripped the bolts on it and couldn't adjust it before last year's Stewart 45 much to the misery of my knees) the Bio II has been bulletproof. But the RDO has boost spacing, which means it can't accept the Bio II. In fact, the BB shell is way too small to accept it. Niner's solution to this was to create the Biocentric 30 this year, which has integrated ball bearings (unlike the Bio II which is really just a shell for a standard external bearing set.) I think I mentioned all of this in a previous thread, but the Bio 30, I think because it was born out of an engineering problem that created the need for compromise (not really, IMO), had some issues form the start. For one, it was incredibly hard to adjust because there simply wasn't space available to access the bolts if you ran most cranksets:
Accessing those bolts was a PIA.
But ultimately, the real problem proved to be something else entirely, and this is where I was left truly disappointed. Back in April, the first time I raced on the Bio 30 was at uber-slopfest LBD. After that race, I needed the entire thing basically gutted and cleaned. There were fistfuls of mud in the bottom bracket after that horror movie of a day. And after I got it cleaned, my real problems began. I'd ride it for a couple of days and then the same noises I expected from the aftermarket EBB started happening with the Bio 30. And then they became constant. I figured it was just an adjustment needed, so I got that done, and less than a week later it was still quiet, but I discovered the frame had cracked. That's a whole other story in itself, but I did get it warrantied and replaced, but fromthe moment I had the new frame, the noise coming from the EBB was constant and very loud. I tried to get it adjusted twice with no help at all. Finally, I asked my shop to look into it and the answer he got from Niner has left me shaking my head.
According to Niner, this is a problem that will not go away. There's nothing wrong with the frame, but the EBB itself is being squished by the torque of riding it SS and the noise is resulting from that occurring where two differnet materials meet (carbon on the shell and aluminum for the BB itself.) Basically, it will eventually happen again no matter what I do - if I ignore it, I have to live with it now, but if I replace the EBB with a new one and it'll quiet for a while and then happen again. Their recommendation? Run it geared. Seriously, that's what they recommend.
I'm so disappointed, and not even because this happened. What pisses me off is that they seem to have known about it as an issue and still advertise this bike as a SS option. (Incedentally, my shop guy is more pissed that they knew about the frame crack issue and never told anyone that about 10% of their carbon frames would fail under regular stress.) No one wants to ride a bike that noisy. And if they knew this was a problem, why offer it as a solution to run a carbon SS? I'd have been fine looking elsewhere if I knew that the RDO may be the greatest race hardtail out there, but it just isn't compatible to run as a SS yet.
And that "yet" is, I think, where my real disappointment lies. The Bio 30 is a first year model that they thought would work as well as the Bio II. I think part of what I am dealing with is a first generation problem that they didn't see coming. They may solve this in the future, but I have to wait and hope the solution doesn't change the frame now since this is the one I have. Their previous ONE9 frame came with the larger housing to fit the Bio II. The addition of boost spacing seems to have made that impossible, but I'm not sure why. Did they design the frame a specific way and then realize this issue was there and respond by engineering the Bio 30 as a stop gap? Why couldn't they have built the boost spacing around the larger shell to fit their Bio II? Looking at it, it seems like they could have fit the larger BB shell on this frame if they wanted to, and they even had the molds to do it since they JUST discontinued the ONE9 last year! Maybe there are engineering issues I am not considering, and I'd give Niner the benefit of the doubt (1) me not understanding something fully is a typical problem and (2) I've never had real issues with their frames before, but I can't for the life of me figure out why this frame had to be designed the way it was. And if it did, why turn folks like me into unwitting guinea pigs on an unproven design? Why not just say you have no SS option right now? It's not like there are tons of us who would want to ride this SS anyway.
So right now, I'm basically sitting on a very expensive paper weight until I decide whether to just give up on the problem and convert it to a geared bike (which would solve it since that would eliminate the EBB which would eliminate the movement that's causing the noise) or keep replacing the EBB every few months at about $100 a pop and hope the issue doesn't start when I'm 50 miles into a 100 mile race because the noise is really like fingernails on a chalkboard -- I can't ignore it and it drives me nuts when I ride it. Not a great set of choices ...
