cost of college

[1speed]

I am kind of "out the game" on all of this now for a long while, but I had to do the same "pay for it yourself" thing. (In fact, I had to pay for my own high school. My parents tried the same thing with my youngest brother a few years later and he told them to fuck off and he'd go to public school, so they caved and paid for him. I had no idea that was an option ...) Anyway, by the time I got to my senior year, I knew college was a financial concern for me far more than an academic one. So I became an authority on scholarships. I applied for everything I could. And ultimately, I landed a full academic at St. Peter's in JC. The fact is - or maybe "was" because I don't know if there are as many out there now - there were a lot of scholarships out there if you were willing to look. I imagine the entire system is a lot more complex nowadays, but I'll bet that the opportunities are still there if you're willing to look. And having the kid involved in that process is actually a good thing: I did really well in college and grad school in large part because it was my choice to be there and I had a financial stake in it. I wasn't playing with house money - if I screwed up, it cost me personally. If I had it all to do over, with benefit of hindsight I think I'd say I should have waited to go to school just because I had no idea what I wanted to do with it and wasn't really prepared to make the choice when I had to. But I don't think I'd change the way I did it. It forced me to educate myself about things that impacted me in a big way that I would have been otherwise too lazy to learn about.

 

[clarkenstein]

@pygmypony i'm a music major - RU grad and Mason Gross attendee. this is 20+ years ago, but here's some background for your kids going into the arts:

i started in music ed at mason gross. realized i didn't want to do that. i wasn't going to do performance either because the instrument i played to get in (euphonium) has very little full time gigs. i would either have to follow performances of mahler 5 and holst's the planets around, or go in the military and audition for the coveted spot in the military brass. not necessarily too many job openings.

so i went to composition, but as an undergrad, you couldn't do composition at the time, so i had to transfer to Rutgers College to get around the system. glad i did it.

i then studied at william paterson and manhattan school of music for jazz and composition, respectively.

i won a few composition awards, even best music for a film at the NYU film festival. nothing really paid the bills that way. what paid the bills was gigs playing my bass. i did get commissioned by a private school to write a piece for their spring choral concert. that paid. but the bass was what paid the bills. brass paid AWESOME during the holidays. i played brooklyn tree lightings for a couple years, and at malls or churches or wherever i could get a gig. worked every day i could between thanksgiving and new years.

it was fun but absolutely exhausting. and being poor flat-out sucks. the best money in the arts is teaching, and that's not saying much. if your kids go into the arts, tell them this one piece of advice: don't buy anything. at all. nothing. do not think you can keep up with friends with normal jobs. its a different way of life than everyone else. and if you do it right, and not get caught up in 'america' and buying crap, you can absolutely survive. but you will not have the trappings of a well financed life.

i'm now a CPA. i work at a biotech doing accounting and writing financial statements. i met my now wife, then 9/11 happened... i lost all my gigs and couldn't keep my apartment any longer. then my wife (girlfriend at the time) lost her job so i couldn't mooch off her. reality hit, and i went legit.

i don't regret majoring in music at all. in fact, i think its balls-out to do it. so when people say to not major in the arts, don't listen to them. life is too short to follow the herd. i have a period in my life where i depended on my talents to survive - it was hard but i look back on it never with regret. it was awesome. would i do it again? sure thing.

i hope your kids nail their auditions. tell them to break a leg, keep their head on straight, and be bold. that's how you make it in the arts. but sometimes you have to stop living it and just go back to enjoying it. there's nothing wrong with that.

that's all i got. now i gotta go back to drafting our annual report. yay.

 

[Jim & Val]

Just wait till you find out from your kid that the majority of classes you're paying top dollar for are being run by undergrads who have a very poor command of the English language
Jim

 

[pygmypony]

@pygmypony tell them this one piece of advice: don't buy anything. at all. nothing. do not think you can keep up with friends with normal jobs. its a different way of life than everyone else. and if you do it right, and not get caught up in 'america' and buying crap, you can absolutely survive. but you will not have the trappings of a well financed life.

thanks for that post @clarkenstein really made me smile...this one piece of advice is especially relevant...and in fact, probably something anyone can benefit from!

 

[Patrick]

I'll throw 1 more thing out there. These are overwhelming numbers to kids - and many adults. Be careful how you phrase it, or wonder aloud how it will happen.
Like @Monkey Soup said, if one of those little boogers gets into MIT, and that is their chosen career path, you need to make it happen.

My niece, who is going to graduate in the top 10 of her hs class, with massive SAT scores, is talking about how $20k seems like alot. She likes (and excels at) bio and chemistry,
and may want to go on to be a dr. hmmm

Her guidance counselor told her skidmore has a good program. I'm going to go and punch the guidance counselor, who probably had a wonderful time at
a liberal arts school where she met her husband from RPI at the Loft (or whatever that dance club was in the '80s in saratoga) or maybe Elda's in beautiful downtown troy....

 

[pygmypony]

So I became an authority on scholarships. I applied for everything I could.

excellent point here...and one i forgot to mention in my post above...we made this a priority for our kids as well...we basically told them to treat applying for scholarships like it was their job...they are writing essays out the wazoo

 

[Bike N Gear]

Just wait till you find out from your kid that the majority of classes you're paying top dollar for are being run by undergrads who have a very poor command of the English language
Jim

This is why you have to choose colleges carefully. Not all colleges do or allow this. Some of the colleges we have visited only have proff's teaching. even grad students are for office hours only.

 

[The Kalmyk]

Or you can get your child involved in fencing.

Then seeks fencing scholarship

 

[Monkey Soup]

I'll throw 1 more thing out there. These are overwhelming numbers to kids - and many adults. Be careful how you phrase it, or wonder aloud how it will happen.
Like @Monkey Soup said, if one of those little boogers gets into MIT, and that is their chosen career path, you need to make it happen.

My niece, who is going to graduate in the top 10 of her hs class, with massive SAT scores, is talking about how $20k seems like alot. She likes (and excels at) bio and chemistry,
and may want to go on to be a dr. hmmm

Her guidance counselor told her skidmore has a good program. I'm going to go and punch the guidance counselor, who probably had a wonderful time at
a liberal arts school where she met her husband from RPI at the Loft (or whatever that dance club was in the '80s in saratoga) or maybe Elda's in beautiful downtown troy....

If you niece has the smarts, drive, and desire, then she should absolutely become a Dr. We need better Dr's. I've run across alot of younger Dr's who are absolute ass-hats, we need fresh talent.

 

[Paul H]

When I went to college, it wasn't cheap but also, it wasn't outrageous as it is now and will become.
Back then, college was about discovering yourself and trying to figure out what you wanted to do with your life. It wasn't unusual for kids to switch majors and maybe even do 5 yrs. Now it kinda seems like college holds a different meaning.

 

[qclabrat]

We are sending our kids to Clown College.

http://www.circopedia.org/Clown_College

 

[qclabrat]

WTF $80-120k give or take for a college education?! My kid is 8. How do I prepare for this hefty bill?

you know that's per year right? Ten years from now, not surprised it will be close to 700K for 4 years
15 years ago my financial consultant told us to save close to 1M for the two kids, he wasn't far off

 

[qclabrat]

My parents, my wife's parents and my wife and I saved for college for our son since birth. It took a concerted effort to save and not spend in other areas. He, of course, chose an expensive school (RPI). We were able to cover it, but it wasn't fun writing those huge checks and closing entire accounts for a semester of tuition. AND they nickel and dime you on the bill, so that adds up as well.

On a side note, he graduated and it took him two years to land a job. AND it's tangent to what he really wants to do, so now he's going back for his masters as well. Stevens, at night. Luckily, there was some money left over, so he won't have too much of a debt once he's finished.

was he in the engineering program? RPI is our short list but any engineering program is no joke

 

[Fire Lord Jim]

I have one who graduated last month, one currently in college, and one in high school.
First off, college is not for everyone, even though everyone says so. College admission rates are way up, however, graduation rates are about the same as forty years ago. And somehow employers don't reward partial college. Since only about 37% of people have college degrees, it can't be required. If you're not going to finish, don't start.

Financial aid is tricky, in that it looks to parents' income as well as wealth. Financial aid expects the student to spend 25% of their wealth each year (makes sense, four years, even though schools measure graduation rates over six years) and Financial Aid expects the parents to spend 5.7% of their asset per year. But Financial Aid excludes your home equity and your retirement assets. So if instead of opening a 529 account, you pay down your mortgage, you build an asset that does not get into the computation. If instead of saving for your kids college, you buy an annuity with that money, that money is not considered available for funding your kid's college. The student can always finance their future, as they have a future to earn it back. We cannot finance retirement, and big corporations seem to surprise many of us with "early refirement". So think hard before starving your future self to pay for your kid's postponement of adulthood.

Two years at community college, and then transferring to the desired school helps economically. NJ public schools have to take that associates degree so long as the grades are mediocre or above.

I think college is in a bubble now, and it will one day burst. Then we will lie on our resumes saying we were in Guantanamo for four years, rather than admit we went to college.

Education is a waste of time and money

 

[qclabrat]

Get a job at Rutgers. All employees kids get free tuition.

^this, my friend's husband is dean for one of the Rutgers depts. Both sons got their engineering degrees from RU and used what they saved to buy a beach house a few years ago

 

[qclabrat]

Im not saying its the preferred method...But when I wanted to go to college no way my mother could afford to pay for it (she sent my sister to Pratt) so I knew from day one whatever my costs were, I was paying for it. Because of this, I did things a little differently....I mean at the time im sure I whined no fair no fair...But nobody gave shit...So I could either not go to school, or figure something else out. So few things I ended up doing

Really thought about what I wanted to do rather than just go to school to hang with my friends and party...which hey, im sure I missed a few great parties, but NJIT was 99.9% dudes anyway.
Soon as I could, I found a job doing ANYTHING I could in an actual engineering firm...drafting, making blueprints, etc... By doing this I learned something important...MANY of my bosses and coworkers went to NJIT...And nobody seemed to hold it against them that they didnt go to Stephens, MIT, etc. This has carried on now through several companies....Where it seems that if you know what you are doing, people want you. So while I finished CCM and got accepted to Lehi...I decided to save a BUTTLOAD of money and go to NJIT.
Having to pay for every class...I sure as hell didnt screw around a fail any of them.
Taught me some great lessons about spending money
In the end, my sister had a dump truck on money spent on her education and has spent the past 20 years trying to find a job and has worked for about 3 of those years and lived off my mom for the rest. I ended up with a total of $15,000 in loans after scholarships, couple of tuition reimbursements at jobs I worked at (CCM I worked and paid for myself)

So while im saving for my kids college...there is no way its going to be some blank check and go fuck off for 4 years on my $100,000...not a chance. I dont feel the slightest bit obligated to fund his education. Nobody funded mine and I thank my mother every time I see her for it. I learned some great life lessons from it.

my brother followed a similar route as you, he went to Union County for the first two years and kept his HS job drafting for a residential architect. Went to NJIT to finish his architecture degree while continuing to draft. After he graduated, he had enough professional hours to test for a license. Ended up being the youngest licensed architect at his firm. He also had zero dept coming out of school. We've told the kids its okay to go to RVCC for a year if they're not sure what the want to study. What's worse than spending big money and 4/5 years later working part time somewhere unrelated to their major.

 

[rick81721]

If you niece has the smarts, drive, and desire, then she should absolutely become a Dr. We need better Dr's. I've run across alot of younger Dr's who are absolute ass-hats, we need fresh talent.

Being a doctor isn't nearly the career it used to be. Lots of hours, big liability costs, plus you have to fund your own retirement and insurance benefits and pay employees. Really smart kids can do much better in the private sector - better hours, tons of benefits, travel, executive compensation programs.

I believe you shouldn't try to shoe-horn kids into a career just because you think it's a good idea/pays well/sounds impressive/etc - they have to be all-in as their career choice.

 

[qclabrat]

Funny. My gf got a masters in biomedical engineering at Stevens, and is now doing an MBA at NYU. Almost a free ride, and now getting mostly paid for by work.

I started at a two year college at SUNY Rockland. It's a great place to start because you won't be out 20k if you switch majors, which I did twice. It was also cheap enough that I paid for it as I went and worked. Finished up at a private college, MSMC, which after 2 years left me with a loan of about 20k. Not as bad as other places, but still sucks. Ending degree is what matters, so starting at a 2 year isn't the worst idea unless you're rich and give your kid a free ride.

put a ring on that bro, just sayin'

 

[qclabrat]

College, trade school, or anything else with long term consequences needs to be looked at as an investment.
Hell, there are hs tracts in somerville that result in HS graduation with an associates degree from RVCC....and they are not all science based.

if art is what they love, then why not?
the good paying jobs are difficult to land, but there is plenty of grunt work. which is where one should start anyway...

i'd watch out for majoring in mid-evil, english literature, with a minor in french.
unless you want to teach - then hey, make it work. (smith or vassar are going to build a lifetime of debt for something like this!)

my younger is in one of those programs with RVCC, when she graduates HS, she'll also have some science degree from there. So far not terribly impressed with the program. I'm working with the principal to improve the student experience which seems to be the biggest negative comment I've heard about.

hmm, art major, told kids they can go that route but make it a dual major or minor. I don't want to pay my kids rent for the rest of my life.

 

[qclabrat]

If anyone is in the publishing field and needs an intern let me know

I have some ideas, PM me or have your son give me a ring. There's no jobs in traditional publishing. Look into industrial publishing specialties.