Brown Lines (Don’t Do It): Cyclocross Line Choice

MadisonDan

Well-Known Member
Team MTBNJ Halter's
To add to @Norm

Shit, @MadisonDan - Remember Bubblecross last year on the first lap when I overcooked the Gazebo off camber turn and went tiltawhirling on my back off the course. I rode that line three times before the race and couldn't get it right. In the race, it was a whole different story... After that, I went into the corner super easy and them hammered out instead of high speed in and through the corner. Lesson learned
Yeah... you totally came into that one too hot... That was trickier on the first lap with all the traffic.. Sometimes the line you want, isn't available...
 

Delish

Well-Known Member
Team MTBNJ Halter's
The double-switchback video is very insightful. My only question is what is the advantage to dismounting on the downhill side of your bike? A, I would think it makes for a riskier landing on the slope with a farther drop and B, it puts you on the outside of the turn while running through. I'll look again, but he didn't shoulder the bike, so the whole dirty side think doesn't really come into play (does it?). I'm a little wet behind the ears, but an uphill side dismount seems to me to be more of an advantage. Thoughts?

Very few people, even the best technicians in the world, seem to be ambi-dismounters. Hopefully somebody can correct me but I can't name a single top pro who routinely changes dismount sides depending on the situation. Most pros could are probably proficient remounting on the dirty side if they are forced off on that side but don't do it by choice. It's a good skill to have rather than having to pass the bike in front of you while running to remount on the non-drive side but it takes a lot of practice.

There are definitely situations where a dirty side dismount makes sense and a right hand off camber 180 like Zolder might be one of them.

5. At some point it doesn't hurt to go to a field and corner until you fall. It's not a terrible idea to know how and when your tires are going to fail. Having said that, conditions dictate a lot of that.

This is a good point. It's important to know that it feels like and sounds like when your tires are at the limit. Generally, people can corner much harder than they think they can. The only way to learn is by falling a few times.
 

Delish

Well-Known Member
Team MTBNJ Halter's
Addendum to the Ambi-dismounter discussion: Dan Timmerman was the one guy I thought of who routinely switches dismount sides. A couple of years ago (2012 IIRC) at Supercross when it was still on Long Island I saw him picking apart this techy, muddy, slippery off camber ride/run section a dozen times during the pre-ride looking for the fastest way to ride it and ended up doing the dirty side dismount in the race. I was in the process of getting lapped by he and Garrigan at the time but according to @Dominos who was watching, he was able to establish a small but important gap though this section because of it and helped him take home the win that day.

Watching the Charm City Day 1 recap video was a good reminder of why I am a big fan of Timmerman. He is technically so sound and really uses his mind to his advantage.

Timmerman Dirty Side @ 3:30 (coming off an off-camber right-hander)
Timmeriman Regular Side @8:41 (coming in straght to the high 180 planks)
 

The Squirrel

Well-Known Member
This is just fascinating to me, thanks for finding these moments.

I watch a LOT of cross while I'm spinning away on the trainer at 5 in the morning and I TRY to learn something from it. This Ambi-dismount thing has been on my mind and I'm thinking there's got to be someone in the pro circuit who does it. I was watching Scheldecross 2014 the other morning and keeping score and this is what I found:

a. There were two major dismount spots besides the barriers. A good portion of the riders chose to hop the barriers so I decided not to pay too much attention to them. The first was a left hand hairpin at the end of a long straight in sand and back into another long straight (which I will bring back to the real topic) and shortly thereafter a flyover with stairs on even ground.

b. There were a surprising number of riders dismounting on the right side. More than I would have really thought. It seemed to me that it was a major disadvantage because the running radius was wider and the footing was not so solid. Even though I didn't see any of the lefty dismounters do the MVdP bike drag they seemed to be able to get a good solid foot plant and change direction quickly. The righty dismounters also ran with their bike in the sand where the lefty's were able to suitcase it around giving them some additional momentum.

c. When it came to the stairs, everyone continued to dismount on their preferred side.

This was interesting to me. Everything I ever read or witnessed in person was left side. I never heard of anyone dismounting on the right side until very recently. And here were a bunch of world beaters holding their own jumping off the right side.

Here's where it comes back to turning. Battling for the win are Laurens Sweeck and MVdP. In the Hairpin, Sweeck consistently jumps off dirty side and runs the straight after the turn. And this was what almost everyone else did (either side) except for MVdP. There's quite a rut on the inside and everyone seems to be glued to it. Mathieu figures out that if he stays very wide in this turn he doesn't have to get off the bike and ride the entire sand section. This ends up being Sweeck's demise as MVdP waits and finally pounces on the last lap, I believe, for the win.

So there you go.

I should start a blog. I'll title it "What I learned from watching the Belgian's race CX on youtube".

Again, thanks for still thinking about this.
 
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gtluke

The Moped
Question.
If I ride a skateboard goofy foot. Right foot on the board, kick with left, why is that the way that it's the norm to mount a cross bike? Wouldn't a "normal" person want their left foot on the bike first and last step be with the right?
Do you have to break "normal" so that you are on the clean side of the bike?
 

Delish

Well-Known Member
Team MTBNJ Halter's
Here's where it comes back to turning. Battling for the win are Laurens Sweeck and MVdP. In the Hairpin, Sweeck consistently jumps off dirty side and runs the straight after the turn. And this was what almost everyone else did (either side) except for MVdP. There's quite a rut on the inside and everyone seems to be glued to it. Mathieu figures out that if he stays very wide in this turn he doesn't have to get off the bike and ride the entire sand section. This ends up being Sweeck's demise as MVdP waits and finally pounces on the last lap, I believe, for the win.

I pulled up Scheldecross 2014 on the 'tube--not sure if I watched that race back then but the course is familiar. L. Sweeck and Pauwels are the two guys that naturally dirty-side. I don't know why. I'm sure it has been answered at some point but probably not in english. The interesting thing to me about a lot of the euro courses is the risk/reward lines--makes the racers gamble. Run or ride. Safe or fast. It makes for great spectating and you get to see the individual riders' styles come through. Meeusen, for example, ill do just about anything to avoid getting off his bike. This is where the #SVENNES videos (i assume you've already watched them all?) really shined because Sven's lines were so interesting and often very different than other top guys.

Question.
If I ride a skateboard goofy foot. Right foot on the board, kick with left, why is that the way that it's the norm to mount a cross bike? Wouldn't a "normal" person want their left foot on the bike first and last step be with the right?
Do you have to break "normal" so that you are on the clean side of the bike?

I think it has less to do with goofy/vs regular than right handedness--lifting or shouldering the bike with the dominant (right) hand. Also, it's not a matter of clean vs. dirty as much as safe vs. laceration. It's In the days when 2x drivetrains reigned supreme and everybody stepped-through on their dismounts, dirty side was downright dangerous because you had 46t ninja throwing star just waiting to slice up a body part.
 

Magic

Formerly 1sh0t1b33r
Team MTBNJ Halter's
How does one race against 95 people at HPCX!?:eek:
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Mountain Bike Mike

Well-Known Member
How does one race against 95 people at HPCX!?:eek:
View attachment 42826

2014 Swirlyturd (raining and mudfest) 85th out of 90fuk'n6 - Can't really say I was racing, more like WTF AM I DOING OUT HERE, I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT I'M DOING!! ask @pearl - Witnessed the entire debacle...

2014 day 1 - finished 60th out of 79... AND I WAS RACING AS HARD AS I COULD and there was plenty of racing to be had with the folks around me

2015 day 1 - finished 19th out of 90fuk'n5 - IT WAS BANANAS!

2015 Swirlyturd - 8th out of 90... Started second row which took away from the large pack feel. Great racing but things strung out quick in the front.

Those large fields are a BLAST... If I had to choose racing between a group of 20-25 or 80-100, I'd choose the latter and want to start smack dab in the middle of the pack - so much action and the event energy is AWESOME
 

MadisonDan

Well-Known Member
Team MTBNJ Halter's
How does one race against 95 people at HPCX!?:eek:
View attachment 42826

I'll let you know afterwards... I f'd up and waited a few days to reg for this one. Call ups are purely by reg order, So I'll be row 3 or 4 I think. Last year I was first to reg, and I actually had #1.
I DID NOT LIKE THAT.
Most important in a field that size is the starting sprint and how you hit the first pinch point...... Course recon is crucial.
 

Magic

Formerly 1sh0t1b33r
Team MTBNJ Halter's
I'll let you know afterwards... I f'd up and waited a few days to reg for this one. Call ups are purely by reg order, So I'll be row 3 or 4 I think. Last year I was first to reg, and I actually had #1.
I DID NOT LIKE THAT.
Most important in a field that size is the starting sprint and how you hit the first pinch point...... Course recon is crucial.
Going by this I'll, I'll be row 96. I find it more fun making my way up anyway. See you in the pack!
 

The Heckler

You bring new meaning to the term SUCK
Question.
If I ride a skateboard goofy foot. Right foot on the board, kick with left, why is that the way that it's the norm to mount a cross bike? Wouldn't a "normal" person want their left foot on the bike first and last step be with the right?
Do you have to break "normal" so that you are on the clean side of the bike?
I like this observation and question in relation to skateboards/scooters.

I'm goofy foot and kick mongo on a skateboard so I'm kicking with my front(left) foot. A person riding regular kicking never mongo would be doing the same but standing with the left shoulder forward while coasting. So logically it does make sense that I'd be used to jumping off of my kick foot.

When we we shoot layups playing basketball however a 'right handed shot' is achieved by jumping off the left foot. With that I associate right handedness to left foot jumping which would favor getting on the left(NDS) side of the bike which is mostly standard.

I am right handed, favor jumping off my left foot for normal things but mount my bike from the right (drive) side. AN EXPLANATION!?

1. I may possibly just have picked that side randomly in the beginning of time and am just now programmed to swing my left leg over the saddle.

2. I started on the drive side because I always lock drive side out so it requires less effort to get on the bike and ride away since I approached the bike from that side for years and years. <---I think this most likely started the habit.

3. There is a correlation between this all but I'm just living all the way at the tip of the bell curve.
 
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