Brakes question for my friend's Surly

HeavyMetaLance

Well-Known Member
A friend of mine (who lives in Seattle) has a question. I'm not much of a 'wrench' so I figured I would post his question here to get your feedback. He doesn't have an MTBNJ account, so any back & forth questions will probably go through me. He will be watching the thread though.
So, here is the question:

I have a surly 1x1. I want to do the kind of riding that involves long twisty decents with roots and rocks. And i want to do it with hydraulic disc's not my current mechanical front disc and rear rim clampy brake.

I think any good set of brakes will work. Money and weight are less of a factor than quality and reliability.

I guess my big concern is whether there are many mounting configurations so i don't buy one that won't fit. And i already known there's a little bit of interference when removing the rear tire. Which I rarely do so no worries.

It's mostly a bike i pedal/push to the top of a hill and bomb down.

BTW it's muddy out here.
 

THATmanMANNY

Well-Known Member
And i already known there's a little bit of interference when removing the rear tire.
what interference is he talking about? He shouldn't have any problems if his 1x1 has disc tabs for disc brakes....

Is he riding the 1x1 rigid or with a suspension fork?

It's pretty easy to get the right brake setup. Just get a front and a rear and get the same size rotors and caliper adapters. 160mm, 185mm, 203mm etc... BUT I think the 1x1 may only be limited to 160mm or 185mm rotors.


I think he should start looking for a full suspension bike if he wants to hike a bike and 'bomb' down.
 

extremedave

Well-Known Member
Team MTBNJ Halter's
I have a surly 1x1. I want to do the kind of riding that involves long twisty decents with roots and rocks. And i want to do it with hydraulic disc's not my current mechanical front disc and rear rim clampy brake.

I think any good set of brakes will work. Money and weight are less of a factor than quality and reliability.

I guess my big concern is whether there are many mounting configurations so i don't buy one that won't fit. And i already known there's a little bit of interference when removing the rear tire. Which I rarely do so no worries.

It's mostly a bike i pedal/push to the top of a hill and bomb down.

BTW it's muddy out here.

According to Surly the bike has i.s. (international standard) as opposed to post mount. So he needs the corresponding i.s. (it will say such) mount for his current size rotor, or the correct ones if he changes size. He will need to be sure and order the mount for the brand of brake he is buying, as Avid and Shimano mount up a little different. (I got schooled by Rob <map11158> on all this the other day!). You can shim/washer that stuff, but they're usually like $10 for a mount, better to do the right thing.

Assuming he has Avid mechanicals, he could probably use his existing front rotor even if he switches brand of brake. Both Shimano and Avid use 160/180/203. Generally they will list the max rotor size you can use on that bike but they did not on the 1x1 specs. That said, chances are he'd probably be fine with 180/160.

He will have to see if the rear hub has rotor mounts, if not he will need a new wheel, or relace the wheel to a disc hub.

Far as it goes, Shimano XT is usually the most recommended brakeset here, dollar for dollar. Can be found $125-150 all over the net.

Is your buddy handy? This stuff isn't terrible to do but he'll probably need to cut and bleed the lines also. Doing some of this wrong could get you hurt. I'm no expert, see JimV or likewise. But I've been looking into upgrading the Mukluk brakes so done some homework. If any of this is wrong, say so, you won't hurt my feelings.:D

As Manny said, maybe he should think about a different bike, right tool for the job and all that. Could easily hit 400-500 bucks with a wheel for all this.
 

HeavyMetaLance

Well-Known Member
Is your buddy handy?

Yeah, he's handy. He is an engineer for Boeing.
He is very familiar with hydraulic systems for aircraft, so I imagine he can tackle whatever he would need to do for a bike.
Don't be afraid to get to technical with your responses. He'll be able to figure it out no problem.
 

THATmanMANNY

Well-Known Member
boeing did make a bad battery... just saying :)

just stick to one brand and size and he is good. This isn't aerodynamics.
 

extremedave

Well-Known Member
Team MTBNJ Halter's
Well, ok then. If I was going to do it, I'd go 180 front 160 rear...maybe 180 rear but...maybe. Shimano XT brakeset for sure. Rotors, full baller status would be Icetech XT, but you could go SLX or whatever you fancy. Watch the Alligators though, the sizes are goofy (I think 185 instead of 180).

There is a tremendous amount of good info about setup and bleeding on the net, including Shimano's site. He'll need Shimano fluid (mineral oil), the little funnel and some hose. Clear marine fuel hose is great as you can see fluid flow. I might have been doing it wrong, but I don't think you need the syringe kit but you do need the funnel.
http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=46455
This is assuming the lines as shipped are too long, which they probably will be.

Generally speaking (and one of the things I LOVE about working on bikes) everything should come with hardware. The brakeset should come with an extra olive and barb, the adaptors should have mounting hardware, and the rotors with bolts. Should...:eek: Aligning the calipers is not too bad, again search the net for procedure.

The only negative I've heard on the XT's is some cold weather seal issues, which is why I haven't pulled the trigger on putting them on the Muk. Although they might wind up on the DH bike depending on what John thinks of the stock Elixer's.

Again, I can understand if he loves that bike, but for not much more cash than this project he could probably find a nice used 26" full squish. Just sayin'.
 

Chris(NJ)

Well-Known Member
And not to threadjack, but I just happen to have a 180 XT IceTech rotor and a adaptor for sale :eek:
 

shrpshtr325

Infinite Source of Sarcasm
Team MTBNJ Halter's
i have xts on my bike for 3.5 years now, never had a single problem in the cold
 

Monkey Soup

Angry Wanker
I would not go with the XT's. I have them on my new bike, and I like the modulation better on my older brakes, even though he XT's are bling. I have a feeling that it has to do with mineral oil vs. DOT 4. Having had a set of Maguras in the past also with mineral oil, I noticed the same thing with the modulation. Also, both the Magura and XT fade a little on the long downhills. Being an aerospace engineer, he probably has a better understanding of the thermal expansion of mineral oil vs. DOT4. Go with something DOT4.
 

HeavyMetaLance

Well-Known Member
Here is his reply so far:

So this bike is my baby. It's been my urban get to work bike. It's
been my ride around town up and down hills bike. But now it's going
to be my play around out in the mountains.

To answer all the questions that i didn't ask.

1) I have front suspension.
2) I like my 1x1 and am not interested in a full suspension bike.
3) The interference is from the frame not having dropouts. It's got a
setup like this (http://surlybikes.com/uploads/bikes/FM0077-04.jpg).

And moving on
1) i.s. (international standard) thank you. I am glad to know that it
sounds like a common mounting configuration.
2) I've got a Hayes Mechanical disc on the front and Deore V-Brake on
the rear. It's what was on there when i bought the bike 8 years ago so
I've got nothing keeping me from replacing the entire brake system
front and rear. In fact it's time, and I'm excited to upgrade.
3) Proper mounting kit. OK thank you i'll make sure to get the right one.
4) My rear hub does have rotor mounts.
5) Shimano XT was on my radar.
6) I do consider my self Mechanically inclined and like the do
whatever i can so i know the job is done right.

I'm looking at this so far
Shimano M596
Shimano XT M785

Any other little tid bits i should keep in mind as i do my research?
 

Monkey Soup

Angry Wanker
The fade with the mineral oil systems I used was really noticeable on long, fast decents. You'd get that wooden feel in the lever and lose power. Never an issue though with the various Hayes systems I used. I think the advantage of oil is tha it's cleaner when it's time to bleed, but I don't think it performs better. Having said that, I have it so I'll try make it work before I change it out. Maybe I'll give different pad materials a shot.
 

Pearl

THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING
Are we talking about bike brakes or airplane brakes?

What does his LBS say?
 

HeavyMetaLance

Well-Known Member
Being an aerospace engineer, he probably has a better understanding of the thermal expansion of mineral oil vs. DOT4. Go with something DOT4.

Here is what he says regarding this:

basically mineral oil kind of sucks as a typical brake fluid but since
bikes don't have a lot of actual fluid and they really don't get too
hot it works fine.

without getting the award for over technifying a simple part i robbed
this from another forum:
http://forums.mtbr.com/brake-time/dot-brake-fluid-vs-mineral-oil-49174.html

post #5
 

THATmanMANNY

Well-Known Member
3) The interference is from the frame not having dropouts. It's got a
setup like this (http://surlybikes.com/uploads/bikes/FM0077-04.jpg).
I see. If that is one of his main concerns he should look for the most horizontal brake calipers and mount the axles as far back as he can. He may be able to squeeze the clearance to remove the rear wheel without unbolting the brake adapters to remove the wheel when he needs.

He should get surly tugnuts. And go tubeless to soften up the downhill on rocks and roots. Inexpensive and great upgrades.

Doesn't shimano use DOT4 and higher fluid?

I love Surlys!
 
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