Let's put the MTB back in MTBNJ: Help me pick a new frame!

phillychris498

Well-Known Member
Any geometry geeks will (hopefully) appreciate a thread on talking about the perfect geometry for NJ flowless tech trails. I currently ride a 2016 Transition Smuggler: it's a 29er with 115 mm of rear travel and 130 mm in the front. I've found that the horse-link suspension combined with my style of riding, however, have made the 115 mm feel even smaller than it is: I bottom that bike out on many of my rides.

As such, I'm starting to think about the right geometry of bike for my next build. I like the positioning/reach of the 2016 Smuggler, and also find that the 67.5 degree headtube angle is pretty close to what I'm looking for; I think the slackest I'd go is around 66 degrees. Although it's super rare in bikes nowadays, I'd like a slightly higher bottom bracket for the slower tech trails the northeast has to offer. So far, the SC Hightower and the 2018 Norco Sight have made me interested:

https://www.norco.com/bikes/2018/mountain/all-mountain/sight-carbon/sight-c-framekit/

Any other frames that people think might fit the bill?
 

oobaa47

Well-Known Member
I was loosely looking into a new 29er. Came across the pivot trail 429, seems to get really good reviews and checks alot of the boxes for the type of riding here in NNJ. It has 120mm of travel with a 130mm fork, super short chainstays, is supposed to climb really well, and has super boost plus spacing, so you can fit up to 29x2.6 tires. I think it has a 67° head angle with a 74° seat tube.....so it's not chasing the trends of being super slack, which should help out with the climbing......
 

phillychris498

Well-Known Member
I was loosely looking into a new 29er. Came across the pivot trail 429, seems to get really good reviews and checks alot of the boxes for the type of riding here in NNJ. It has 120mm of travel with a 130mm fork, super short chainstays, is supposed to climb really well, and has super boost plus spacing, so you can fit up to 29x2.6 tires. I think it has a 67° head angle with a 74° seat tube.....so it's not chasing the trends of being super slack, which should help out with the climbing......
The Trail 429 is definitely up there on my list too. I do want to build my next bike from the frame up though, and I don't think they have a frame only option :(
 

qclabrat

Well-Known Member
Check out the Intense Sniper Trail version, 120mm travel with 67.5HTA
If you want more travel look at the Primer model
https://intensecycles.com/collections/cross-country/products/sniper-nm-frame-shock

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stb222

Love Drunk
Jerk Squad
This isn’t a jab...

Do you think you are versed enough with all of the geo variable to make decisions simply based on the numbers?

And if you are riding “flowless” Trails, would you be better suited on a 27.5?
 

goldsbar

Well-Known Member
So many ways to go. I find a 29+ HT is perfect for the flowless trails as you call them. Wouldn't just look at HA, that's just one part of the equation. As you mentioned, be aware of the trend for super low BBs. Handles great in the flow, but constant pedal bashing can get annoying quickly.
 

Monkey Soup

Angry Wanker
Any geometry geeks will (hopefully) appreciate a thread on talking about the perfect geometry for NJ flowless tech trails. I currently ride a 2016 Transition Smuggler: it's a 29er with 115 mm of rear travel and 130 mm in the front. I've found that the horse-link suspension combined with my style of riding, however, have made the 115 mm feel even smaller than it is: I bottom that bike out on many of my rides.

As such, I'm starting to think about the right geometry of bike for my next build. I like the positioning/reach of the 2016 Smuggler, and also find that the 67.5 degree headtube angle is pretty close to what I'm looking for; I think the slackest I'd go is around 66 degrees. Although it's super rare in bikes nowadays, I'd like a slightly higher bottom bracket for the slower tech trails the northeast has to offer. So far, the SC Hightower and the 2018 Norco Sight have made me interested:

https://www.norco.com/bikes/2018/mountain/all-mountain/sight-carbon/sight-c-framekit/

Any other frames that people think might fit the bill?

If you’re bottoming out 115mm, you're going to bottom out 120 also. I would go the full 150/160mm, it’s not too much bike for around here, especially up north, and most of the newer bikes pedal pretty well. Check out the new SC Bronson. I also wouldn’t get too hung up on the geometry on paper, I’d ride the bike and see how it feels.
 

Patrick

Overthinking the draft from the basement already
Staff member
Increase shock pressures, don't need new bike. Solved. Close thread. You're welcome.

Someone is going in the box for a week to think about what they just did.
you ruin it for one, you ruin it for everyone.
:D:D

My solution would be to replace augment it with two bikes with different missions.
Now there is balance in the universe.
 
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phillychris498

Well-Known Member
This isn’t a jab...

Do you think you are versed enough with all of the geo variable to make decisions simply based on the numbers?

And if you are riding “flowless” Trails, would you be better suited on a 27.5?
I'm not entirely sure that I am well versed enough in geo to make a decision simply on numbers... hence the thread!

I'm pretty hesitant to make the switch to 27.5, however. My riding style is picking aggressive lines that simply go over rocks instead of around, and I've always liked the monster-truck feel to a 29er when riding rocky trails. I've always felt a little out of place when riding a 27.5 in tech.
 

phillychris498

Well-Known Member
If you’re bottoming out 115mm, you're going to bottom out 120 also. I would go the full 150/160mm, it’s not too much bike for around here, especially up north, and most of the newer bikes pedal pretty well. Check out the new SC Bronson. I also wouldn’t get too hung up on the geometry on paper, I’d ride the bike and see how it feels.

I'd definitely like to go higher on the rear-suspension travel, but I want to make sure there's a balance between ample travel for the trails I'm riding and climbing ability/agility. I've heard that the VPP on Santa Cruz makes their bikes great climbers, which is making me lean towards the Hightower or the Hightower LT. I've heard through the grapevine that the Hightower LT is about to get bigger and slacker though, which wouldn't be my flavor.
 

stb222

Love Drunk
Jerk Squad
I'm not entirely sure that I am well versed enough in geo to make a decision simply on numbers... hence the thread!

I'm pretty hesitant to make the switch to 27.5, however. My riding style is picking aggressive lines that simply go over rocks instead of around, and I've always liked the monster-truck feel to a 29er when riding rocky trails. I've always felt a little out of place when riding a 27.5 in tech.
Rut Roh, times for some skills work!

There is a reason 27.5's are called party bikes...because they are a hoot to ride.

That being said, 15 years later, they finally figured out the 29er solutions to not make it feel dumb. Or so it seems.
 

phillychris498

Well-Known Member
As you mentioned, be aware of the trend for super low BBs. Handles great in the flow, but constant pedal bashing can get annoying quickly.

The low BB drop on my current bike definitely gets frustrating. It is really stable on flow, but even with 170 mm cranks, I rock-bash them constantly.
 

phillychris498

Well-Known Member
Rut Roh, times for some skills work!

There is a reason 27.5's are called party bikes...because they are a hoot to ride.

That being said, 15 years later, they finally figured out the 29er solutions to not make it feel dumb. Or so it seems.
One of my favorite things about tech is the ridiculous rock-face climbs. Don't you think 29ers are way better suited for ups than 27.5?
 

phillychris498

Well-Known Member
This is my only complaint about the Hightower.
Damn. That'll knock the Hightower down for sure. I didn't realize until now (doing metric conversions from SC's website) that the Hightower is only a 33.7 cm BB height, just as low as my current frame. Certainly not the only factor, but something that's pretty important.
 

stb222

Love Drunk
Jerk Squad
One of my favorite things about tech is the ridiculous rock-face climbs. Don't you think 29ers are way better suited for ups than 27.5?
I think that is more of a skill, than a wheel size. Are roll over easier on a 29er, probably, but someone out there could do the same on a 20".

Interesting you noted about the pedal strikes, when I first got my 5010, first few rides I was striking all over as I came of a HT with a really high BB. After a few rides, it stopped. I guess my brain adjusted. That being said, the low BB is what make the 5010 a dream to corner and go DH on (for a trail bike).
 

JimN

Captain Wildcat
Team MTBNJ Halter's
After a few rides, it stopped. I guess my brain adjusted.

Your brain must be better than mine. I would say the pedal striking got better, but it didn't stop. I also put a little extra air in the shocks, and I frequently ride it in climb mode or whatever it's called.
 
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