H2H Categories

JDurk

Well-Known Member
This was a good read, thank you.
I was still promoter of the Summer Sizzler when USAC was involved with the MASS. It really was a P.I.A. with day-of registration. Some of the races went full in as National qualifiers, and after all was said and done, Cat2s and Cat3s didn't have to qualify, just have a valid up-to-date license, show up and race. 1 of my teammates didn't race much that year, bought his Cat2 license about 2 weeks before Nationals, went to Bear Creek and won Cat2 40-44 or 45-49.
 

Steve Vai

Endurance Guy: Tolerates most of us.
This has a name. It’s called “triathlon”

Obviously haven't seen the hundreds of age-classes? But to be fair, one age group at a Tri is usually bigger than all of the H2H categories combined, times 2.
 

Kirt

JORBA: Chimney Rock, Team MTBNJ.COM
JORBA.ORG
Team MTBNJ Halter's
I know it's like beating a dead horse, but all of the other series anywhere are more popular when USAC isn't involved. Why H2H is stuck on this super simple issue is baffling to me.


The simple answer is the series sponsor asked us to. This is from MTBNJ point of view, so I’m not speaking for any other club. At the promoters meeting, Dave of AC Daughtry gave the reasons for the push and we were given a proposal with financial incentives to be a USAC race. We were offered a pathway for either choice & he, nor the H2H series, were forcing anyone to do it. The incentives themselves were certainly not enough that we would base our decision on them. We as a team have not been supporters of USAC for a few years, for all the much discussed reasons. But Kristine & I were swayed then got Norm on board, and in the end, we decided to support Dave/AC Daughtry. It is simple as that for us. He stepped up a few years ago with sponsorship & probably saved the series. Even if it didn’t die, it would probably be a lot less than what it is now. He reasons for supporting USAC are simple, he believes in supporting the governing body of the sport. And he puts his support behind not only H2H but Nica as a sponsor as well and Jorba. So IMO, it’s the least we could have done for someone that’s so involved, supportive & passionate about this sport we all love. That said, we are not tied to this long term if USAC drops the ball we will go back to being unsanctioned.

PS- Check the Rt 66 series numbers. They were USAC & some huge race numbers.
 

gtluke

The Moped
I don't race so disregard all my opinions but I've always thought the classes were kinda silly. Run what you brung, the end. But beginners should realistically do less distance and the mass start is a glaring problem. The triathlon has the swim start to help that. And they don't ride the bikes on single track or worry about lappers. The ssap and dh40 start was always fun to watch, that super long prolog helps.
Good luck pleasing everyone.
 

pixychick

JORBA: Ringwood
JORBA.ORG
USACycling also offers trail building grants to clubs that promote races and build trails. This serves the future of the sport as does NICA.
 

Joe J

Well-Known Member
Maybe the issue is that we are lucky enough to have such damn good riding around here. We have so many choices within say 50 miles of most people that they just don't see a reason to race they just want to ride. If all we had were a couple small crappy places to ride and the only way to make it fun was to race more would. I think this is partially why Cx looks more popular, has anyone ever had fun riding around in a field by themselves jumping over stuff? The only thing that make Cx and for the most part road fun is racing.

For me series are a non event I go to the races that I like. Over the years the few times I've made the mistake of getting caught up in a series I have regretted it. It forced me to do races that were poorly run on crappy courses.

Maybe if there were no series the good events would survive and the others would die. We might end up with less events but they would be better attended and more competitive.
 

gtluke

The Moped
Maybe the issue is that we are lucky enough to have such damn good riding around here. We have so many choices within say 50 miles of most people that they just don't see a reason to race they just want to ride. If all we had were a couple small crappy places to ride and the only way to make it fun was to race more would. I think this is partially why Cx looks more popular, has anyone ever had fun riding around in a field by themselves jumping over stuff? The only thing that make Cx and for the most part road fun is racing.

For me series are a non event I go to the races that I like. Over the years the few times I've made the mistake of getting caught up in a series I have regretted it. It forced me to do races that were poorly run on crappy courses.

Maybe if there were no series the good events would survive and the others would die. We might end up with less events but they would be better attended and more competitive.

I agree. I race dirt bikes for that reason. Great opportunity to ride a new place that I otherwise couldn't or wouldn't.
Cross has a much better social vibe. But you can also spectate cross. Mtb not so much.
 

Joe J

Well-Known Member
I agree. I race dirt bikes for that reason. Great opportunity to ride a new place that I otherwise couldn't or wouldn't.
Cross has a much better social vibe. But you can also spectate cross. Mtb not so much.

The social thing is in my opinion why you are seeing Cx #'s have declined a bit. The social aspect is only going to be a draw for a limited time after that your either there for the raceing or your going to do something else for the day.
 

Dave Taylor

Rex kwan Do
The simple answer is the series sponsor asked us to. This is from MTBNJ point of view, so I’m not speaking for any other club. At the promoters meeting, Dave of AC Daughtry gave the reasons for the push and we were given a proposal with financial incentives to be a USAC race. We were offered a pathway for either choice & he, nor the H2H series, were forcing anyone to do it. The incentives themselves were certainly not enough that we would base our decision on them. We as a team have not been supporters of USAC for a few years, for all the much discussed reasons. But Kristine & I were swayed then got Norm on board, and in the end, we decided to support Dave/AC Daughtry. It is simple as that for us. He stepped up a few years ago with sponsorship & probably saved the series. Even if it didn’t die, it would probably be a lot less than what it is now. He reasons for supporting USAC are simple, he believes in supporting the governing body of the sport. And he puts his support behind not only H2H but Nica as a sponsor as well and Jorba. So IMO, it’s the least we could have done for someone that’s so involved, supportive & passionate about this sport we all love. That said, we are not tied to this long term if USAC drops the ball we will go back to being unsanctioned.

PS- Check the Rt 66 series numbers. They were USAC & some huge race numbers.
And where is rt 66 series this year?
 

Norm

Mayor McCheese
Team MTBNJ Halter's
And where is rt 66 series this year?

The series organizers decided to stop doing it which, as a promoter I get. You get tired of it. You get tired of this. Exact. Conversation happening year after year.

I mean to me, IDGAF if we are USAC or not. What is $75? We need to stop pretending the license cost is an issue. Most of the people here have bikes that cost more than their cars, and trainers that cost more than their fridges. Like someone said on that FB thread, the license is the cost of a tire. We are talking a set of people who will drop $400 for a weekend to go race 200 miles away. Cost, in the NY/NJ area, is not a valid argument based on pretty much every shred of available evidence.

Does USAC offer anything? Who knows. Dave, as @Kirt mentioned, pretty much offered to save the series a few years ago and he asked us to try it out. So we'll try it out. If it doesn't work for us, then we'll un-try it. Whatever.

I offered to personally vouch for HB to get them an H2H race at Nassau 2 years ago. So y'all didn't even need to have a race to prove you can do it. That offer was not picked up, even after I reached out to the Nassau park rep, several people at Nassau, the owner of HB, and several other HB members. You guys have the team, you have a venue, you have the potential to make it happen. I even had someone from our team agree to design the course. But nothing came of that.

If you want to help make the scene better, get involved.
 

jShort

2018 Fantasy Football Toilet Bowl Lead Technician
Team MTBNJ Halter's
Agreed. The license fee is a weak excuse considering the $ people pay on other things.
 

Chris(NJ)

Well-Known Member
I mean to me, IDGAF if we are USAC or not. What is $75? We need to stop pretending the license cost is an issue. Most of the people here have bikes that cost more than their cars, and trainers that cost more than their fridges. Like someone said on that FB thread, the license is the cost of a tire. We are talking a set of people who will drop $400 for a weekend to go race 200 miles away. Cost, in the NY/NJ area, is not a valid argument based on pretty much every shred of available evidence.
.

Nobody likes fees, especially when it feels like the money does nothing for you. But I do agree that 75 is irrelevant. Was just talking w/ my buddy at work yesterday who is competing in plenty of jiu jitsu competitions this year, and they also have to pay a sanctioning body for them to register and compete.
So it's not like cycling is the only sport that does this.
Not saying it wont, can't or doesnt need to change, but it's pretty much standard across multiple areas.
 

Dave Taylor

Rex kwan Do
The series organizers decided to stop doing it which, as a promoter I get. You get tired of it. You get tired of this. Exact. Conversation happening year after year.

I mean to me, IDGAF if we are USAC or not. What is $75? We need to stop pretending the license cost is an issue. Most of the people here have bikes that cost more than their cars, and trainers that cost more than their fridges. Like someone said on that FB thread, the license is the cost of a tire. We are talking a set of people who will drop $400 for a weekend to go race 200 miles away. Cost, in the NY/NJ area, is not a valid argument based on pretty much every shred of available evidence.

Does USAC offer anything? Who knows. Dave, as @Kirt mentioned, pretty much offered to save the series a few years ago and he asked us to try it out. So we'll try it out. If it doesn't work for us, then we'll un-try it. Whatever.

I offered to personally vouch for HB to get them an H2H race at Nassau 2 years ago. So y'all didn't even need to have a race to prove you can do it. That offer was not picked up, even after I reached out to the Nassau park rep, several people at Nassau, the owner of HB, and several other HB members. You guys have the team, you have a venue, you have the potential to make it happen. I even had someone from our team agree to design the course. But nothing came of that.

If you want to help make the scene better, get involved.
Well I am new at HB and don’t really know much about the past. I am willing to help out and try. For me currently racing and family are priorities. I did take the monmouth county class and help out when I can but I am strapped on time. I often try to voice my opinion on here and other websites so promoters have some feedback. I get people that agree or disagree openly but typically the promoters seem to know it all so it’s really pointless to do it sometimes. I will beat a dead horse again. I am not and was not planning on racing SS this year. So my thought on the class is why not cater to the masses? I’m pretty confident(I may be wrong) that there were more Cat 1 SSers than Cat 2 or Cat 3 Ssers so why not steer the race format towards Cat 1 with number of laps? @Riggedfmx @Rigidnsingle @pooriggy
What happened to the FB post by H2H where all the women voiced there opinion? It disappeared. You want to promote a good race series then cater to what people want. Maybe add a 1 lap pro/open race to suit all the CX/MTBers? I don’t know. Battle Royal!
 

pooriggy

Well-Known Member
Team MTBNJ Halter's
I get people that agree or disagree openly but typically the promoters seem to know it all so it’s really pointless to do it sometimes.
It is pointless as a promoter to constantly explain yourself to folks who sling poop on the internet.

I thought me, you, Jaime, Tony and Monte where lining on our SS in open pro, why the back pedaling mr. poop slinger.
 

Dave Taylor

Rex kwan Do
It is pointless as a promoter to constantly explain yourself to folks who sling poop on the internet.

I thought me, you, Jaime, Tony and Monte where lining on our SS in open pro, why the back pedaling mr. poop slinger.
ignorance is bliss...
 
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