The origin of the "S" word...

[BiknBen]

We had a little outburst of the term Sandbagger recently. A word often used to excuse or lessen someone's accomplishment. I've seen and heard this phase used in all types of contexts for years. I'm REALLY not fond of the term, how it is used, and the impact it has. I figured I'd provide some history.

First, the origin. Rival gangs used bags or socks of wet sand to beat those who ventured into each other's territory. Provide a discouraging beat down in the dark of night. A annonymous message to those who are not welcome.

I was first exposed to it when I was MTB racing in the late 90's. I was a Sport (Cat2) rider during parts of two seasons. During the same time, another rider often won all the races in my age group. On numerous occasions, I finished second to him. Not a huge deal to me but other riders were bothered by the regularity of his winning.

I spoke to this guy before and after races and we were friendly competitors. He was a good guy and we got along just fine. He was faster so finishing second to him seemed appropriate to me. As others made their comments and objections, this rider explained to me that he did not have the time or interest to train for the demands of the next level. I got it and didn't hold a grudge.

Tension grew with other racers. The next season, this guy was no where to be seen on race day. In an encounter much later, I asked what happened to him. He explained that he didn't feel he would be able to compete at the next level and grew tired of the tension from his peers. He stopped racing altogether to avoid it.

This term took a foothold due to some relatively funny suggestions by the establishment. I recall standing on a NJ State Championship Series podium at Ringwood State Park. The top three in each category and age group were given a trophy, medal, and a zip-lok bag of sand. I remember being puzzled by it at first. "What is up with the baggie of sand?" It was all in good fun. The promoter explained, "Each of you have now graduated. Good luck next year after you upgrade." The tension was building among the racers and a friendly suggestion to upgrade was made at the end of the year. Everyone on the series podium got a bag of sand. No one was singled-out.

Since those times, individuals have taken this far beyond friendly suggestion. It is used to belittle people, by those who are jealous. Passive-aggressive comments online. I've witnessed arguments on start lines and tussles in parking lots. Among both men and women. Many crossing the line of sportsmanship.

The winners feel this target on their back. The losers unify and seek vengeance. People have begun to suggest that a win means an automatic upgrade. Nonsense! What I find comical is that those seeking vengeance often become the target later. An endless cycle. We teach those entering the sport and it gets worse over time.

Remember that rider I explained earlier. I have seen that scenario repeat about a dozen times. Good racers, fun personalities, and great people have avoided races due to the tension. Some upgrade to avoid criticism but never really make it at the next level. They won but weren't ready to upgrade. They race less or not at all. Enter another discipline. Some just leave racing discouraged and disgruntled. I've seen it among those of us on the forum.

So, who is to blame? If you show up to a race with confidence that you will easily win...than you are doing yourself and the sport a disservice. Go ahead. Have your fun. Get your podiums. Go nuts on social media. Then move up and take your lumps. If you lost, train harder and improve. The complaining brings everyone down. Raise up instead.

The goal should be to compete and have fun. Explorer new riding areas and your personal limits. Make new friends along the way. Encourage one another to continue pushing the limits of what we can do. Be ambassadors of racing. Some of us get on the podium. Some have to find other motivations and rewards. Not everyone wins!!!

So the next time the word sandbagger enters your mind...hold it there. Stop the cycle!

 

[RobW]

Well said ben... Positivity will always build the sport. @Norm told us cat3 guys at mooch that if we are clearly over the rest of the class, that we should upgrade to cat2 to keep the sport going. To the cat1 gents.... Nothing is more discouraging to the cat3 guys/girls than poking fun. The few that I've come in contact with are always positive so good job, keep it up, and watch out for us in the future

 

[hardtale70]

As to the above, no way. In the 90s I top 5d beg then top 5d sport (NJ overall) then got bored and started racing dirtbikes. Went from literally buying my 1st dirtbike to 1 race outta being an ECEA "A" rider in 3 seasons. I did this by contesting seasons. You show up ready, the bike is ready, you go to all the rounds and always finish no matter what. So lets combine all that. 5-6 years of mtb and moto, maybe 70 events.. AND....I NEVER WON! The only thing I ever won was a "guess the amout of candy in that jar" thing in 2nd grade. I either get promoted or self promote every season and move on. I now sign up Open or Cat 1 or whatever and languish in obscurity while having fun on my way to being one badass 60 yr old racer. If you cant meet the demands of the next level, just move up and have fun losing, it's great! Anyway none of this has anything to do with MBMs sandbag gate anyhow. Luv ya!!

 

[Juggernaut]

As to the above, no way. In the 90s I top 5d beg then top 5d sport (NJ overall) then got bored and started racing dirtbikes. Went from literally buying my 1st dirtbike to 1 race outta being an ECEA "A" rider in 3 seasons. I did this by contesting seasons. You show up ready, the bike is ready, you go to all the rounds and always finish no matter what. So lets combine all that. 5-6 years of mtb and moto, maybe 70 events.. AND....I NEVER WON! The only thing I ever won was a "guess the amout of candy in that jar" thing in 2nd grade. I either get promoted or self promote every season and move on. I now sign up Open or Cat 1 or whatever and languish in obscurity while having fun on my way to being one badass 60 yr old racer. If you cant meet the demands of the next level, just move up and have fun losing, it's great! Anyway none of this has anything to do with MBMs sandbag gate anyhow. Luv ya!!

Great post! I need a second "like" button.

 

[mattybfat]

Lol MBM Sandgate! As he tip toes through the garden...
I won exactly 2 begginer races and 1 second in sport xc but dh was another animal. I remember my sandbag days in beginners dh and won bunch in sport too but once I got to expert never sniffed top 5 and only 1 top 15. It gets real once you get to the next level.

 

[Patrick]

Ugh.......my initial reaction...not sure now.

holy crap - come on ben, that guy was a total ass. he could join cat 1 and actually have to race someone not to dfl, or he can just
show up and beat you for a whole season, even tho you are training hard, so you can move up. at least in golf, i can get some strokes.

two convincing wins and move up. win some/lose some, hang out.

i've got no cred on this topic, i suck, but understand that i can ride better than the cat 3 i rode last week - my first mtb race. there were people in better shape, but
if there was a rock in the way, i caught them. so i will move up, and deal with the back half, and hopefully get into cat 2 mid-pack shape....at least i won't
feel like i'm denying someone a medal that they have to work hard for.....

i think it was friendly teasing with MBM - as it was unexpected in his first go. blow out a bigger field, have times that break into the tail of cat 1, move up.
no big thing. I Celebrate your Win! hell, wasn't that long ago you first donned the mandex

Really want @Norm's perspective as a race organizer - is this some sort of usac bs? or can the race organizer move this person up because of past results?

 

[BiknBen]

two convincing wins and move up. win some/lose some, hang out.

How do you determine a convincing win? H2H course vary wildly. A win at Lewis-Morris doesn't mean you will win at Jungle and Vise-verse. When you display an ability to win at varying courses, I'll give you the nod. If at that point you are interested in winning a series, I'll let you continue with a strong suggestion at the end that you have earned your place among the next level. A pat on the back with praise instead of our typical crying foul and pointing fingers.

i've got no cred on this topic, i suck, but understand that i can ride better than the cat 3 i rode last week - my first mtb race. there were people in better shape, but
if there was a rock in the way, i caught them. so i will move up, and deal with the back half, and hopefully get into cat 2 mid-pack shape....at least i won't
feel like i'm denying someone a medal that they have to work hard for.....

The Cat 3 is a bit of a gray area. The Cat 3 field is intended for beginners entering the sport. If you've been riding for a length of time, been riding another discipline, etc. you are likely better than that. Just respect that there is a need for Cat 3. A place for relative beginners to enter without getting destroyed by more experienced racers.

Really want @Norm's perspective as a race organizer - is this some sort of usac bs? or can the race organizer move this person up because of past results?

Promoters can do what they wish at the local level. I've seen them deny entry to someone who was known to race down. "Race up or go home!" They walk a fine line though since they would then need to continue what they start. Promoters have often pushed for the racers to police themselves. A USA Cycling promoter has some documented rules to reference to stop problems. Although, at the local or grassroots level, even a USA Cycling promoter can do what they want. I've also seen a promoter reprimand two racers who were squabbling at the start line. Made a stern message that only good sportsmen were welcome that day and things quieted down.

 

[The Kalmyk]

I could race cat3 a couple of races. I have very little experience racing. Two races my whole life. One was a dnf at Tymor in 2008 and the other was Cathedral Pines in 2011. That's justified, no?

 

[Patrick]

Thanks Ben - Good info.

Convincing wins. You know them when you see them......

 

[hardtale70]

I could race cat3 a couple of races. I have very little experience racing. Two races my whole life. One was a dnf at Tymor in 2008 and the other was Cathedral Pines in 2011. That's justified, no?

My first reaction is to go with riding experience , where you are not a beginner, but starting for the ground up helps you to have some time to learn how to pass/be passed with some level of poise. Go right ahead you sandbagger

 

[RobW]

this will be my 2nd season racing cat3. Still finished mid pack however I feel this may be my year to podium... Am I a SB?

 

[bigW]

As a (very) slow dude who will likely always be stuck near the bottom of CAT 3, I don't spend a lot of time sweating who may or may not be a sandbagger. I did have one experience in CX getting lapped by the first place racer just prior to the start/finish and thus did not get to race the final lap.

That dude finished first by a huge margin and repeated the same for at least two or three more races. Not sure how satisfying that was for him to beat up on CAT3....

Oh well.

W

 

[Schilling]

this word does get thrown around a lot i too think it's bs.

there are rules as to when you can petition to upgrade and everybody has to start somewhere, at the bottom. it comes down to fitness and skill. if you possess enough of both and can demonstrate it at varying venues then maybe its time to move up. as for the mid season, its the racers call. if you're clearly dominating and no one is even close, you are in the wrong place bump up. however if you're winning but its been close, you're in close competition for the series, or feel that you're really not ready to race that extra lap at the next level yet, then stay where your at, continue working, and make sure you make the move in the off season.

with every move up the food chain it takes more commitment: time, diet, and training(physical/mental) some can and are able to and some are not do to a variety of reasons, and that's ok.

in the end none of us on the local circuts are really pros, and the satisfaction clearly outweighs the purse, so just go out have fun and worry about yourself.

 

[Arwen's Mom]

Ben, I love you.
Thats all I have on this subject.

You too Chris.

 

[wonderturtle]

I normLly don't pay attention to this stuff since I have no chance of the podium so why the hell would I care

However, the most egregious example of sandbagging I've ever seen was a number of years ago at Monmouth county's woods hollow mountain bike race in Tatum.

If you know this race it is the most low key, "low level" mountain bike race around.

Before the race there's some dude warming up on a trainer. While at any other "real" mountain bike race this wouldn't stand out, at woods hollow it stuck out like a sore thumb. A trainer at wood hollow? Really? Come on man.

I naturally assumed he was doing the sport category (there are only two fields sport and beginner).

But no. The dude lines up in the beginner field. My friend Brian (great athlete but total noob mountain biker) rode behind the guy for the first lap and a half. He said the guy was basically just playing cat-and-mouse with him. He'd let Brian get close then he'd create a gap, again and again. Then with a half lap to go mr warmup trainer took off like a rocket for the win.

Sorry, but that is the definition of a sandbagger. His douchbaggery denied my friend the win and denied podium spots to other true beginners.

Not cool.

 

[jShort]

I normLly don't pay attention to this stuff since I have no chance of the podium so why the hell would I care

However, the most egregious example of sandbagging I've ever seen was a number of years ago at Monmouth county's woods hollow mountain bike race in Tatum.

If you know this race it is the most low key, "low level" mountain bike race around.

Before the race there's some dude warming up on a trainer. While at any other "real" mountain bike race this wouldn't stand out, at woods hollow it stuck out like a sore thumb. A trainer at wood hollow? Really? Come on man.

I naturally assumed he was doing the sport category (there are only two fields sport and beginner).

But no. The dude lines up in the beginner field. My friend Brian (great athlete but total noob mountain biker) rode behind the guy for the first lap and a half. He said the guy was basically just playing cat-and-mouse with him. He'd let Brian get close then he'd create a gap, again and again. Then with a half lap to go mr warmup trainer took off like a rocket for the win.

Sorry, but that is the definition of a sandbagger. His douchbaggery denied my friend the win and denied podium spots to other true beginners.

Not cool.

Yea, but did you know the guy? Maybe it was his first race and was really not sure how he would line up with the other beginners? Did he continue racing in this category after this race?

 

[wonderturtle]

Yea, but did you know the guy? Maybe it was his first race and was really not sure how he would line up with the other beginners? Did he continue racing in this category after this race?

I guess there is a very small chance that he legitimately didn't know where he belonged.

But in my experience not too many noobs due pre-race warmups on a trainer.

I think it is a far greater likelihood that he was well aware of his abilities.

Actually....in an effort to give the guy the benefit of the doubt (trying hard to do so) perhaps he was a local roadie (and didn't know where he fit in a mtb race) and used the race as a training opportunity.

But the whole cat-and-mouse thing screamed douchbaggery and suggests he knew where he belonged.

 

[soundz]

My god just get rid of all classes and and have 1 class and you place where you place. If it's about getting a medal just have 30 podiums. Problem solved.

 

[hardtale70]

My god just get rid of all classes and and have 1 class and you place where you place. If it's about getting a medal just have 30 podiums. Problem solved.

Ah, the "Diablo Effect". Pro/Am, Men/ Women and throw $$$ at those 12 finishers. Sit back and watch your event explode. H2h classes really are the problem.

 

[Fat Trout]

My moments of triumph aren't defined by standing on a cheesy set of three wooden boxes. I ride, race, snowboard and fish for myself and battle against myself. I rarely play tug of war because I find it to be more fun to drop the rope and watch the other guy fall on his ass.

I'll give it to the guys/gals who can finish top three in the top category of anything. They are really amazing. Everything else is just a participation trophy though. If you are in a lower category and someone "sandbags" or you feel they did, don't worry about it. You know where you finished and thats all that matters. If it bugs you because you didn't get to stand on a plywood box or get a medal made in the same plant in china that makes rubber dog crap then ok....but I suggest it doesn't matter. If you financially need the prizes offered below the top category ....whoa ignore this post, you need additional assistance