Wharton Conditions

1speed said:
This is a true statement ... I drove out there last night because I was feeling stir crazy after not being outdoors at all for four days and was hoping to do a nice figure 8 to combine orange and blue. Blue was an absolute shitshow - there must be at least 40 or 50 trees down across the trail (some you can ride over, many more you can't.) It took forever to get through it, so it kind of killed my plan for the night - by the time I crossed Blue the first time, I knew my light wouldn't last for another 20 or so miles and I really didn't want to ride it again to complete the figure 8, so I had to reconsider. Orange was a bit better for what I rode, but I didn't do a whole lot of it.

Just an FYI for anyone heading out there - the trails themselves are in rough shape right now, too, with sand and pine needle drifts and small branches that were deposited by all the water that flowed through there making it a much bumpier ride than usual. It's not bad, but if you're on a tight schedule just know it will ride a bit slower than usual right now.

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1 speed you follow me on Strava and I gave a good description of how many trees were down. I rode there yesterday at 11 am.
 
John the Plumber said:
1 speed you follow me on Strava and I gave a good description of how many trees were down. I rode there yesterday at 11 am.
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Hey John! Yeah, I probably should have looked at that, huh? :oops:

I didn't mind driving all the way out there, though, anyway. I love being out there at night. I did that a bunch of times during the pandemic when Wiss started getting too overcrowded even during the week. It's just a cool night spot because there's not much light pollution at all and the only sound you hear is the wind blowing through pine trees. So even though the ride was a bit of a cluster, I was still really happy to get out there anyway.
 
1speed said:
Hey John! Yeah, I probably should have looked at that, huh? :oops:

I didn't mind driving all the way out there, though, anyway. I love being out there at night. I did that a bunch of times during the pandemic when Wiss started getting too overcrowded even during the week. It's just a cool night spot because there's not much light pollution at all and the only sound you hear is the wind blowing through pine trees. So even though the ride was a bit of a cluster, I was still really happy to get out there anyway.
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Just to mention, that like most other NJ State Parks & Forests, unless you have a camping permit or prior approval, Wharton is closed dusk to dawn, and patrolled by the SPP at night.

Forestry staff also read social media.
 
slingblade_uhhuh said:
Good. It appeared that you were oblivious.
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I'm not. And what's the point in lying about knowing the rules anyway? Honestly, I could give what I personally see as a cogent, thorough argument to explain and defend my decision to ride there at night and the result of that would be absolutely not one person's opinion on the act itself would change. It's a well-known characteristic of discussions on the internet, or so I've been led to believe. So why bother?
 
1speed said:
I'm not. And what's the point in lying about knowing the rules anyway? Honestly, I could give what I personally see as a cogent, thorough argument to explain and defend my decision to ride there at night and the result of that would be absolutely not one person's opinion on the act itself would change. It's a well-known characteristic of discussions on the internet, or so I've been led to believe. So why bother?
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Why bother? How about as a courtesy to: the people that worked with forestry staff to create the trail system; the people that have been throwing thousands of hours into maintaining the trail system; and the people that have been working to keep forestry staff happy that MTBrs are around.

There are still people and groups that would like to eliminate and minimize mountain biking. Why bother saying and doing things that can justify their opinions? Isn't it better to play nice and get the opportunity to create more trails? Riding at night, riding on hiking-only trails, urinating in the parking lot are not good things.
 
slingblade_uhhuh said:
Why bother? How about as a courtesy to: the people that worked with forestry staff to create the trail system; the people that have been throwing thousands of hours into maintaining the trail system; and the people that have been working to keep forestry staff happy that MTBrs are around.

There are still people and groups that would like to eliminate and minimize mountain biking. Why bother saying and doing things that can justify their opinions? Isn't it better to play nice and get the opportunity to create more trails? Riding at night, riding on hiking-only trails, urinating in the parking lot are not good things.
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I think from your reply (and subsequent additional thread) you're not understanding what I'm saying. Your reply here seems to imply that you think I was saying "Why bother obeying the rules?" That's not what I said. In fact, that's not on the table for me. I am saying "why bother explaining why I don't". I don't think you actually would consider it a courtesy for me to explain myself. And I'm pretty sure if I did it wouldn't convince you anyway, even if I were to fully articulate the thought process behind each of my reasons. Also, I'm sorry if you're taking my actions personally. At least take solace in the fact that they're not intended that way. But also perhaps recognize that not everyone necessarily feels the same way you do about playing nice, as you put it. And while most won't be so forward (perhaps stupid?) as to admit that publicly, I don't see any reason to pretend I'm something I'm not. There's no malice in it. Selfishness? Probably. But I'd argue perhaps there's also some selfishness in expecting someone to obey rules they don't agree with simply to honor your efforts within the constraints of those rules. If it helps, I've never urinated in a parking lot in my life, and riding there at night isn't something I do with enough frequency to make it anything more than a little bit of slippage that likely only goes to highlight that the majority of users are obeying the rules and that should justify the continued access. I think if the actions of one person are going to get you kicked out of there, then the reality is the powers that be have probably been looking for the opportunity to cut off access anyway and eventually they'd have found that reason even if everyone did exactly what the rules say. That certainly seems to be the theme I've seen in these type of things in the 30 or so years I've been riding off-road.

Honestly, I hope this whole thing works out for you and convinces a whole bunch of people who may be on the fence about breaking rules not to do so. If that happens, then what you're probably seeing as this very negative interaction could yield a net positive, right? At any rate, good luck with all your access efforts and if it helps therein to continue shaming me for what I've done, have at it. And I'm not saying that to be a smartass - I look at this as nothing more than an "agree to disagree" type situation where you perhaps have a lot more passion on your side of the argument than I ever will on mine. So, seriously, consider me your effigy to burn and maybe something satisfying can come out of this.
 
1speed said:
I think from your reply (and subsequent additional thread) you're not understanding what I'm saying. Your reply here seems to imply that you think I was saying "Why bother obeying the rules?" That's not what I said. In fact, that's not on the table for me. I am saying "why bother explaining why I don't". I don't think you actually would consider it a courtesy for me to explain myself. And I'm pretty sure if I did it wouldn't convince you anyway, even if I were to fully articulate the thought process behind each of my reasons. Also, I'm sorry if you're taking my actions personally. At least take solace in the fact that they're not intended that way. But also perhaps recognize that not everyone necessarily feels the same way you do about playing nice, as you put it. And while most won't be so forward (perhaps stupid?) as to admit that publicly, I don't see any reason to pretend I'm something I'm not. There's no malice in it. Selfishness? Probably. But I'd argue perhaps there's also some selfishness in expecting someone to obey rules they don't agree with simply to honor your efforts within the constraints of those rules. If it helps, I've never urinated in a parking lot in my life, and riding there at night isn't something I do with enough frequency to make it anything more than a little bit of slippage that likely only goes to highlight that the majority of users are obeying the rules and that should justify the continued access. I think if the actions of one person are going to get you kicked out of there, then the reality is the powers that be have probably been looking for the opportunity to cut off access anyway and eventually they'd have found that reason even if everyone did exactly what the rules say. That certainly seems to be the theme I've seen in these type of things in the 30 or so years I've been riding off-road.

Honestly, I hope this whole thing works out for you and convinces a whole bunch of people who may be on the fence about breaking rules not to do so. If that happens, then what you're probably seeing as this very negative interaction could yield a net positive, right? At any rate, good luck with all your access efforts and if it helps therein to continue shaming me for what I've done, have at it. And I'm not saying that to be a smartass - I look at this as nothing more than an "agree to disagree" type situation where you perhaps have a lot more passion on your side of the argument than I ever will on mine. So, seriously, consider me your effigy to burn and maybe something satisfying can come out of this.
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HOLY SHIT
 
1speed said:
I think from your reply (and subsequent additional thread) you're not understanding what I'm saying. Your reply here seems to imply that you think I was saying "Why bother obeying the rules?" That's not what I said. In fact, that's not on the table for me. I am saying "why bother explaining why I don't". I don't think you actually would consider it a courtesy for me to explain myself. And I'm pretty sure if I did it wouldn't convince you anyway, even if I were to fully articulate the thought process behind each of my reasons. Also, I'm sorry if you're taking my actions personally. At least take solace in the fact that they're not intended that way. But also perhaps recognize that not everyone necessarily feels the same way you do about playing nice, as you put it. And while most won't be so forward (perhaps stupid?) as to admit that publicly, I don't see any reason to pretend I'm something I'm not. There's no malice in it. Selfishness? Probably. But I'd argue perhaps there's also some selfishness in expecting someone to obey rules they don't agree with simply to honor your efforts within the constraints of those rules. If it helps, I've never urinated in a parking lot in my life, and riding there at night isn't something I do with enough frequency to make it anything more than a little bit of slippage that likely only goes to highlight that the majority of users are obeying the rules and that should justify the continued access. I think if the actions of one person are going to get you kicked out of there, then the reality is the powers that be have probably been looking for the opportunity to cut off access anyway and eventually they'd have found that reason even if everyone did exactly what the rules say. That certainly seems to be the theme I've seen in these type of things in the 30 or so years I've been riding off-road.

Honestly, I hope this whole thing works out for you and convinces a whole bunch of people who may be on the fence about breaking rules not to do so. If that happens, then what you're probably seeing as this very negative interaction could yield a net positive, right? At any rate, good luck with all your access efforts and if it helps therein to continue shaming me for what I've done, have at it. And I'm not saying that to be a smartass - I look at this as nothing more than an "agree to disagree" type situation where you perhaps have a lot more passion on your side of the argument than I ever will on mine. So, seriously, consider me your effigy to burn and maybe something satisfying can come out of this.
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Pretty sure he originally just meant that if you break the rules, please don’t post about it on the internet. I might be wrong though.
 
Bike N Gear said:
Pretty sure he originally just meant that if you break the rules, please don’t post about it on the internet. I might be wrong though.
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Yes. Thank you.

Forestry staff also read social media.

Like most other NJ State Parks & Forests, unless you have a camping permit or prior approval, Wharton is closed dusk to dawn, and patrolled by the SPP at night.
 
Trails were mostly ridable this morning. Thank you to everyone that pitched in! There is a storm coming through this afternoon with more storms following this week. Sooner or later there will be no more burnt dead trees falling. But not this month.


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I was out there today. Did the beginning of the trail cc and there is a huge tree down before the first bridge right after the white trail. So I took that (white) to the end then headed back around south on blue. Got to Washington road and rode mostly double track. Picked up north blue not (MTB blue) to mount jemima then blue south back to Washington to batsto. 18 miles. First ride since rib injury. Bumps hurt but it was Zone 2 easy pedaling. Great day for end of January.
 
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Next Wharton MTB Trail Maintenance is Sunday 2/4/24. Everyone is invited. Must be over 18 years old. Meet in the lot at 9:00. Bring; bug spray, water, snacks, suitable footwear, and a sense of humor. You will be asked to sign a waiver. Clippers and gloves will be available. Current plan is to brush back the Huckleberry Trail. Pedal or ride (truck seating is limited) back to the work location. Thanks!


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