Allaire Conditions

Sandman98

Well-Known Member
I was at allaire this morning and its a rutted ice mess. Theres some soft exposed dirt but majority of it was sheet ice. Maybe the rain and the warm temps will melt it before the weekend. I went to the bike path instead.
 

Johnny Utah

Well-Known Member
Probably best to stay out till at least the weekend (although more rain is predicted).

Hate to be a broken record, but the trail crews put a lot of time in working on these trails. Riding in the wet and mud causes a lot of damage and creates issue with other trail users.

Please stay out of the trails until the conditions improve or the trails re freeze (I hope the warm temps are here to stay).
 

Sandman98

Well-Known Member
I agree with you Johnny. I was there yesterday morning to check it out and the exposed dirt was soft and damped just about you pass the parking lot. This morning is different due to the overnight rain and warm temps probably worst than yesterday. Year after year we've been dealing with the great thaw and still the trails will end up rutted no matter what this forum is telling us about destroying the trails by riding on wet trails.
 

Johnny Utah

Well-Known Member
Year after year we've been dealing with the great thaw and still the trails will end up rutted no matter what this forum is telling us about destroying the trails by riding on wet trails.

I disagree with you here Sandy. Eventually with comments on here like this the community will lose it's volunteer base (as they essentially deficate on the people doing the work). Remeber, someone does clean up that rutted mess, and it tends to be the same small group of people. Over twenty years ago one would be lucky if you saw another car in the Hospital Road lot, it is a bit of the opposite now. With the amount of rogue trails popping up in conjuction with new riders that do not understand proper etiquette between cyclists/horses/hikers, etc. it is only a matter of time before issue arises.

Don't forget, ATUG started because of behavior like this (coupled with other issues) in 96/97 when the park was going to shut the park down to cyclists.

The amount of cyclists now using the park (and other parks) coupled with the attitude of "we will do what we want" is certain to lead to future issue.

While some of us have heard these comments year after year, there is a new crop of riders that come up ever year here that do not understand this issues and history of the park. These messages are more for them, if your seasoned and have heard to story, kindly say little and pass by. Most bike shops do not educate the rider to preservation/etiqutee when a new bike pruchase is made.....we can try here, at least in the park conditions section.

Not an attack on you, rather prevention for the plethora of videos showing what not to do that were posted by one of the previous site users.
 

Norm

Mayor McCheese
Team MTBNJ Halter's
the community will lose it's volunteer base

Has lost. Say 3-4 years ago we used to see TM crews of 50-80 coming out to Allaire & Six Mile. Now you're lucky to get 10.

new crop of riders that come up ever year

This is true. Those of us who have been around may get tired of having this conversation every year. But there are always new people who come into the fray and without fail, someone posts a "this is rad" post/pic/video of mud riding. Yeah, things heal & dry up & get better. We're just talking about dirt at the end of the day. But it is frustrating to the people who turn the gears behind the watch face.

There are a certain percentage of riders who just don't care. There are also a good number of people who avoid the trails when they are wet. We really want to reach those people in between, and try to get them to not ride, so the people who don't care do less damage. If we all went to Six Mile when it was wet because we think it's rad, it would be a total disaster to the point I imagine the park might close.
 

Sandman98

Well-Known Member
You misunderstood me Johnny. As of right now someone I know is going to ride there and they where there yesterday too. They said the trails are muddy and wet. They are a member of this board too. Even though I told them about the effects of riding on muddy conditions they still go and made a joke about it too and it pisses me off. You should see my text messages. Anyway, its human nature. Like you said "we will do what we want" attitude. You have a good point, I dont see any problem with that. Peace.
 

pooriggy

Well-Known Member
Team MTBNJ Halter's
^The puddles are concentrated in the wet spots where the mud is.

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Biker Dude

Member
I read this forum every day and follow the suggested rules when it comes to riding while the trail is wet / muddy. However, if you look at these trail condition posts, I see plenty of the 'regulars' on the forum state that they rode the trails for recon purposes. Well, if the regulars go and do 'recon' rides and then post that conditions are not good, it may be construed that they rode but don't want other people to do the same.

And I understand the fat bike riding but wouldn't those big tires rut up just as much or more? This forum is full of fat bike riders touting conditions in all the parks that I won't ride due to muddy / sloppy conditions.

Just my $.02.
 

Arwen's Mom

Mother of Dragons, Breaker of Chains
I also want to add that part pf the problem is perception. I have headed out to 6M after hearing a report on here that conditions were good. Then went and was horrified at how wet it was. And YES, just so you all know, I shortened my ride and headed home as I didnt want to contribute to further damage.

Another thing to think about is we may see cars in the lot, and talk crap about people riding wet trails, but they may actually be hiking, or there to shovel dirt, or other maintenance, and are not actually riding. I have also had people comment "I cant beleive you rode" when actually the trails really were fine.

The point is there are many facets to this issue. And there are many with a dont care attitude. All we can do is spread the word, and volunteer when we can, and do what is right.
 

Arwen's Mom

Mother of Dragons, Breaker of Chains
However, if you look at these trail condition posts, I see plenty of the 'regulars' on the forum state that they rode the trails for recon purposes.

I hike to do recon.
 

Rogers

Well-Known Member
The regulars who post up trail conditions know the park very well. Some of them have been riding the park for over 20 years. So they know how long it will take to dry out based on current weather conditions. In addition a lot of the trail stewards live very close to the park and do a drive by on the way home from work and/or go hiking. I know the guys posting up trail conditions at Allaire and trust me they are not riding.
 

Johnny Utah

Well-Known Member
I read this forum every day and follow the suggested rules when it comes to riding while the trail is wet / muddy. However, if you look at these trail condition posts, I see plenty of the 'regulars' on the forum state that they rode the trails for recon purposes. Well, if the regulars go and do 'recon' rides and then post that conditions are not good, it may be construed that they rode but don't want other people to do the same.

And I understand the fat bike riding but wouldn't those big tires rut up just as much or more? This forum is full of fat bike riders touting conditions in all the parks that I won't ride due to muddy / sloppy conditions.

Just my $.02.

Without getting too far off topic, recon can be for snow, ice, mud, etc. Some of us are close enough to ride to the park in question, and if it is too muddy, we hit the manasquan bike path to the beach (at least I do when Allaire is in discussion). Recon is usually done down south by locals so our friends who are snowed in up north can have an idea of the conditions (and vise versa) in order to avoid damage and so they can make the best of their ride.

Fat bikes are not exempt and can cause damage too, usually less as they offer more float over the terrain, but they should stick to the same rules as a standrad MTB. FAT TIRES ARE NOT AN EXCUSE TO GO OUT IN THE MUD (there, I said it)

Yes this foum is full of fat bikers reporting conditions, especially in the winter, as with the snow pack the fat bikes have an advantage of covering more ground and can report what is ridable to a CX bike or standard MTB. Standard wheeled riders report just as well, so lets not make this a fat/standard thing.

And I get back to the original sentiment. The conditions are aweful in Allaire right now (tons of snow melt, standing water, mud, and additional rain on the way), bike traffic should be out of the park. If you disagree, I have had that argument too many times and do not want to again. We have this discussion annually (please revert back a few posts for my statement that mitgates this).

If you are curious or want more info, come out to one of the maintenance days that will be posted shortly and lend a hand.
 

Johnny Utah

Well-Known Member
The regulars who post up trail conditions know the park very well. Some of them have been riding the park for over 20 years. So they know how long it will take to dry out based on current weather conditions. In addition a lot of the trail stewards live very close to the park and do a drive by on the way home from work and/or go hiking. I know the guys posting up trail conditions at Allaire and trust me they are not riding.

Well said.
 

Mitch

Well-Known Member
Team MTBNJ Halter's
You're only allowed to ride in the mud during a race, so slap on a number plate and you should be golden.
Really? Not here at this park.
Let's just use common sense on this. This issue comes up every year. You are going to have people ride in the park when they shouldn't but all we could do is ask that you don't. Just like at the super market when you see people on the express line with more items then they should these are the same people that ride when wet and muddy.
 

knobbyhead

Next off the Island.
Really? Not here at this park.
Let's just use common sense on this. This issue comes up every year. You are going to have people ride in the park when they shouldn't but all we could do is ask that you don't. Just like at the super market when you see people on the express line with more items then they should these are the same people that ride when wet and muddy.

I don't don't know nija4life, but I think the sarcasm was deep on his post. At least that is what I was hoping when he posted this.

If not, I'm got your back!
 

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