The Joy of Mountain Biking

MissJR

not in the mood for your shenanigans
Team MTBNJ Halter's
so what the fuck is this shit about? https://www.bikereg.com/h2h-season-pass

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i get my choice of either racing teenagers in cat 2 or racing cat 1 ladies? what the fucking fuck? no fucking masters/40+/old fart cat at least?

i know a couple of ladies who are already questioning whether they're going to race this year and now this shit? i'll be the only fucking adult in the group!
 

ChrisG

Unapologetic Lifer for Rock and Roll
so what the fuck is this shit about? https://www.bikereg.com/h2h-season-pass

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i get my choice of either racing teenagers in cat 2 or racing cat 1 ladies? what the fucking fuck? no fucking masters/40+/old fart cat at least?

i know a couple of ladies who are already questioning whether they're going to race this year and now this shit? i'll be the only fucking adult in the group!
Yeah, I've been wondering about the "consolidation" of the categories across the board. Kind of surprised no one else has brought this up for discussion in this venue (unless I missed it?). I'm curious as to how the racing population at large feels about some of these changes. Open Singlespeed is now Cat 2 distance, to add another example to the ones Joy points out.
 

JDurk

Well-Known Member
Wow, MASS series just added classes in the Cat 1 and 2 for the women. No changes for Cat 3 or Female juniors.
From MASS FB page.
Adding - Women’s Cat 1 / Cat 2 50+ (starts with the Cat 2 group, does Cat 2 distance, competing for medals & prizes)
Change in the existing Cat 2 age breakdowns to:
Cat 2 Women 19-34 & Cat 2 Women 35–49. This gives both of these classes 15 year age breaks
Change in the Cat 1 Women’s 40+ down to 35+. This class still starts with and competes for the same combined cash purse with the Women’s Cat1/Pro Open. Scored separate for MASS points only. Cat 1 women that are 50+ are not required to go to Cat 1/2 50+ class. They may remain in Cat 1 35+ and race for cash if they want.
 

Robin

Well-Known Member
Who voted on these classes? What about this "survey" that was sent out?? I know I completed the survey even though I'm not racing...and I would never vote for this.

I get that numbers are small for the fields, but come on. This is one way keep numbers decreasing.

On the contrary, I applaud the MASS series for ADDING women's fields - and if I was still racing XC, I would be at the MASS races.
 
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MissJR

not in the mood for your shenanigans
Team MTBNJ Halter's
yeah... i get the numbers are low and i was actually fine with a women's breakdown of juniors, 19-39 and 40+... not as many breakdowns as the men's fields but, hey, women's numbers are low... and i want to race against my peers...

BUT A YOUNG LADY WHO IS STILL IN MIDDLE SCHOOL IS NOT MY PEER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and i think this new breakdown is COMPLETE FUCKING BULLSHIT.

and, of course, i just bought a fucking race license.
 

1speed

Incredibly profound yet fantastically flawed
yeah... i get the numbers are low and i was actually fine with a women's breakdown of juniors, 19-39 and 40+... not as many breakdowns as the men's fields but, hey, women's numbers are low... and i want to race against my peers...

BUT A YOUNG LADY WHO IS STILL IN MIDDLE SCHOOL IS NOT MY PEER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and i think this new breakdown is COMPLETE FUCKING BULLSHIT.

and, of course, i just bought a fucking race license.

If it makes you feel any better, the data basically says you won't be racing many (if any) young ladies in middle school. I took a quick look at the results for the 2017 series, specifically at Cat 2 Women. One of the races no longer has viewable results up, but of the six that do the numbers are kind of interesting in terms of (1) who is (or more to the point, who is not) racing and (2) who really are your "peers". Granted this is a very rough breakdown (I would't call it an "analysis") but the table below shows the top and bottom finishing times for each race for each Cat 2 Women's Age Group in 2017:
25856401138_c4d3fdee55_o.jpg

Only one 12-18 year old Cat 2 has finished a race, that being the first one. Overall in the series, 2 actually competed, but the other finished only one lap of the Bulldog race.

The other thing of note here from a racing perspective is the significant overlap between the range for 19-39 and 40+. Overall, the 19-39 class is generally faster, but not on a one-to-one basis -- in every case except the last one, where there were only 2 women in the 19-39 class, the 40+ winner would have finished ahead of at least some of the 19-39 women. Moreover, in more than one instance, the 40+ winner would have been on the 19-39 podium. There are any number of ways to interpret that, obviously, but one way might be that age groups really aren't all that important to begin with.

Like I said, this isn't any kind of formal "analysis", but it should at least confirm for you that chances are you won't be racing many (if any) middle school kids if you choose that class, and the promoters probably considered this when determining the new cutoffs. And - just as important! - the 40+ women can still kick the crap out of the younger women if they ever have to share a class!
 

Stef

❤ Brownie Biatch ❤
JORBA.ORG
Team MTBNJ Halter's
If it makes you feel any better, the data basically says you won't be racing many (if any) young ladies in middle school. I took a quick look at the results for the 2017 series, specifically at Cat 2 Women. One of the races no longer has viewable results up, but of the six that do the numbers are kind of interesting in terms of (1) who is (or more to the point, who is not) racing and (2) who really are your "peers". Granted this is a very rough breakdown (I would't call it an "analysis") but the table below shows the top and bottom finishing times for each race for each Cat 2 Women's Age Group in 2017:
25856401138_c4d3fdee55_o.jpg

@Dominique race 4 was REALLLLLL close between the old farts and young chicks....hmmmmmmmmmmmm
 

MissJR

not in the mood for your shenanigans
Team MTBNJ Halter's
when i see the women grouped like that... this is what i think:

we, as race promoters, don't give a shit about you. we'll take your money tho.
 

Norm

Mayor McCheese
Team MTBNJ Halter's
when i see the women grouped like that... this is what i think:

we, as race promoters, don't give a shit about you. we'll take your money tho.

On the contrary. I have replied on the H2H thread and have offered Kirt's seat at the promoter's meeting to you for next year.

Also, I will reimburse your USAC license fee.
 

Dominique

Well-Known Member
Team MTBNJ Halter's
@Dominique race 4 was REALLLLLL close between the old farts and young chicks....hmmmmmmmmmmmm

Wait was that you and me at Waway?? That's the only time I got on the podium as a cat 2 because you know I was the only one there (crap conditions that day)....

Honestly, I was looking forward to racing the 40+ category this year, now I get to lose against various 25-30 year olds who are on their way to cat 1... how exciting...
 

MissJR

not in the mood for your shenanigans
Team MTBNJ Halter's
On the contrary. I have replied on the H2H thread and have offered Kirt's seat at the promoter's meeting to you for next year.
i just saw that... my FB is blowing up right now. me and my big mouth.... with a devil on my shoulder... i'll talk to you about that off FB and MTBNJ.
 

muddybike

Well-Known Member
Team MTBNJ Halter's
Personally I have great respect for riders of all ages and ability. If a 13 year old can kick my butt (and I have ridden with some that can), I applaud that kid! I am not insulted to line up with them. We make each other stronger by supporting and encouraging one another. We can learn from each other. - Growth Mindset -

I've also been in the disappointing position of lining up with just one or 2 other women. It's sad.
 

Dominique

Well-Known Member
Team MTBNJ Halter's
Personally I have great respect for riders of all ages and ability. If a 13 year old can kick my butt (and I have ridden with some that can), I applaud that kid! I am not insulted to line up with them. We make each other stronger by supporting and encouraging one another. We can learn from each other. - Growth Mindset -

I think we can all say that we all have great respect for riders of all ages and ability. And that is definitely not what we are talking about.

But as a 40+ cat 2 women who will not get any better or stronger and who is paying to race (and not getting any payout), racing against 20-30 old women takes the glimmer of hope that I could do well. I'm not against racing with lots of women... just women my own age.
 

muddybike

Well-Known Member
Team MTBNJ Halter's
I think we can all say that we all have great respect for riders of all ages and ability. And that is definitely not what we are talking about.

But as a 40+ cat 2 women who will not get any better or stronger and who is paying to race (and not getting any payout), racing against 20-30 old women takes the glimmer of hope that I could do well. I'm not against racing with lots of women... just women my own age.

You won't get any better or stronger??? Yes you will! You already have! This past year alone I saw you improve in both fitness and skill!
 

Robin

Well-Known Member
Time to think more about this and digest.

I get where all the ladies are coming from. And looking back I may have voted for an Open Cat 2... with that title. Yes, many races have a generic Sport class.

I know there are fast "kids" out there. I coach them. And I've been run over by them. And cheer them on. I do think that with NICA races on the same days as H2H, you may not see as many kids as you think.

I just think that perhaps the presentation of the category might be more inviting if didn't say 12-year old. And just list as Open or Sport.

I'm now rambling after a long day of dealing with "kids".
 

muddybike

Well-Known Member
Team MTBNJ Halter's
I just think that perhaps the presentation of the category might be more inviting if didn't say 12-year old. And just list as Open or Sport.
I 100% agree, and have asked that the title be changed! (update - the title on bike reg now says OPEN)
 
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muddybike

Well-Known Member
Team MTBNJ Halter's
and who is paying to race (and not getting any payout), racing against 20-30 old women takes the glimmer of hope that I could do well. I'm not against racing with lots of women... just women my own age.

The results list shouldn't be the measure of success. Take Sea Otter. I love that race, but I don't have any glimmer of hope that I will do well. I know I'm not going to be battling the leaders in any of those races. I'm not even going to be battling the middle of the pack. I'll be lucky if I can have a battle with someone at the back of the pack. I know this. But it really doesn't matter. My goal is to learn, to improve, to gain experience. I go back to push myself, to overcome something that tripped me up the previous year, to see if I can do just a little bit better, to see if that stupid road climb can feel just a little less demoralizing, to maybe, just maybe, not get pulled.
 
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