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View Full Version : 1x10;Sram vrs. Shimano


pooriggy
01-15-2012, 10:44 AM
I am looing to go 1x10 on my mountain bike this year. I have a lot of questions. I think 11-36 will be fine for the rear cassette. What I need feed back on is

What crank gearing?
Sram x9 or Shimano xt...or other model?


This if for my Cannondale Al. Flash. I want to switch to go simpler, lighter and hopefully be faster. Let me hear from you guys running 1x10...Thanks.

goldsbar
01-15-2012, 10:59 AM
I run a 32 in the front and a 12(?)-36 in the rear. All SRAM except the SLX cranks. A 32T front is the lowest you can go easily. There are small manufacturers making 31T and even 30T middle rings but they require some filing of the crank spider. Another option is a spiderless crank (I believe many SRAM cranks have removable spiders). In theory, you can use just about any size ring with this option. In practice, companies still make a 32T minimum.

In any case, with a 32T and 12/36T rear, I never run out of gear on a real trail. It is possible for short spurts on crushed gravel roads and of course pavement but that's not what I have a mountain bike for. I do at times wish for a 30T front in places like Allamuchy but it's not a big deal.

Don't forget a bash guard and some sort of chain catcher on the inside to prevent the chain from popping off.

Is it simpler and lighter? Certainly simpler and worth it for that IMO. The amount of weight you save isn't going to make any difference.

pooriggy
01-15-2012, 11:24 AM
I do at times wish for a 30T front in places like Allamuchy but it's not a big deal.


Is it simpler and lighter? Certainly simpler and worth it for that IMO. The amount of weight you save isn't going to make any difference.

I like the idea of a 30t front. This is the bike i use for endurance races. Courses with a lot of climbing it would be nice to have an easier gear to spin uphill as opposed to mashing and getting tired out.

I thought the weight would be significant without the front shifter?

ArmyOfNone
01-15-2012, 11:28 AM
I like the idea of a 30t front. This is the bike i use for endurance races. Courses with a lot of climbing it would be nice to have an easier gear to spin uphill as opposed to mashing and getting tired out.

I thought the weight would be significant without the front shifter?

If your thinking about endurance events and having an easier gear I would think the 1x set up may not be your best option. Sure its lighter but you when you have been beating up on yourself for hours, you should having the right selection of gears to help you finish.

Coming from the guy who races a lot of endurance events.....................:rolleyes:

Kirt
01-15-2012, 11:34 AM
If your thinking about endurance events and having an easier gear I would think the 1x set up may not be your best option. Sure its lighter but you when you have been beating up on yourself for hours, you should having the right selection of gears to help you finish.

Coming from the guy who races a lot of endurance events.....................:rolleyes:

Couldn't agree more. The front won't be much of an issue if you don't' use it much, but will be there when you need it most.

merritt
01-15-2012, 11:36 AM
+1 for shimano.....I had shimano for 16yrs so i may be partial, and now have been using sram for about 2 months, sram isnt bad but it isnt shimano either

MikeP
01-15-2012, 11:38 AM
On my Misfit 29er I run a 28T front with a SRAM 1070 12-36 cassette (10 speed), SLX cranks, XT RD and shifter, Race face bash guard and N-stop cahin guide. Great set up for me. Had X7 RD and shifter on bike, more comfortable with Shimano. My X7 stuff is in the Bit&Pieces section for sale if anybody is looking for used parts cheap.

Fogerson
01-15-2012, 12:24 PM
The 1x10 setup on my Jet9 works pretty well.

SRAM PG1070 11-36, X9 trigger shifter, X9 medium cage RD, jump stop, 34T SS qrotor chainring, race face bash and (newly) Biocon v.02 chain guide.

For me personally, no lower gearing is required--and I'm fat and out of shape. Anything lower than 34-36, I'm probably gonna' move faster walking anyway. And with the 34-11, I can zip along in the 20's on the flat...

Originally, I was going to go with a mrp bash/guide unit, but it wouldn't clear the lower links on the jet9.

Then I had a modified kedge cross chain catcher on it, but alas, I found that sticks would get stuck in it and bend the light weight aluminum bracket. Hence the jump stop now. Honestly, I don't even know if I really need a guard...especially with the SS ring.

I went with a medium cage RD because I figure that I might want to go 2x10 when I get to Oregon. The Cascades are big.

I just put on a just released biocon v.02 chain guide. Not 100% thrilled on how it mounts to the swing arm of the Jet9 (specifically), but it works as advertised. You don't need this for any bike; I got one because I'm an equipment whore AND I hate the noise made by the chain slapping around through the rocks (too much time on a SS, apparently)--this thing takes care of that quite well.
http://www.bionicon.com/images/accessoires/c-guide-v02/hl_111208_cguide_v02_front_red_web.gif

jShort
01-15-2012, 12:56 PM
I've been almost exclusively 1x9 for 2 years and with a 32 in the front and a 36 in the back, you are in a really low gear.

I have a 32 front and 34 in the back on my full sus sultan and I'm never looking for an easier gear. And thats on a 28lb bike.

Your lighter and faster than me so I think you should easily be ok with a 32 front.


PS - my E13 chainguide has been flawless where the mrp has failed me 2 or 3 times. The mrps crack way too easily. Vreeland will concur

stb222
01-15-2012, 01:15 PM
I have 1 x 10 xt. 34 by 11 x 36 is the only think I have run and used it at mooch madness and the baldpate to water company trail no-so-epic ride. 34 x36 is really low and you are lighter and stronger than myself with a bike that is easily 5 lbs lighter.

I don't know how the numbers work out with the team prices, but shimano can be had for much, much cheaper after market.

Norm
01-15-2012, 02:22 PM
I don't like 1x9/10 because you don't get the full range of top end. This applies for both MTB and CX bike. I don't buy into the 1x mindset at all. Well, unless the 1 in front is the big pie plate then you're talking.

map111158
01-15-2012, 02:46 PM
Here's another vote against the 1x setup for you. Riding with you as much as I do I know your style and it includes a lot of high cadence. You use that bike everywhere and for all types of events; you'll regret not having that little ring on mile 40 of bearscat. 1x10 setups are not for everyone and are geared more towards XC. Or you could just suck it up on the climbs its not like we live in the Alps :p

If you insist on doing it, you'll be fine with a 32 and 11-36. What cranks do you have now? I believe the bike had a Shimano triple? If you want to try a 1x10 just use your current cranks. Buy a single speed specific chainring (make sure the bcd is the same as your cranks). Im with Jeremy, skip the mrp and go with the e.13. They make a nice clamp mounted chain guide that is much more solid than any of mrp's offerings (Ive tried and broken everything out there tho). Also, if you decide to do it make sure you shorten your chain significantly.

pearl
01-15-2012, 03:03 PM
X2 against 1x. More than anything, I like the smaller front ring to catch my chain :)

ChrisRU
01-15-2012, 03:13 PM
If your thinking about endurance events and having an easier gear I would think the 1x set up may not be your best option. Sure its lighter but you when you have been beating up on yourself for hours, you should having the right selection of gears to help you finish.

Coming from the guy who races a lot of endurance events.....................:rolleyes:
This.

I don't like 1x9/10 because you don't get the full range of top end. This applies for both MTB and CX bike. I don't buy into the 1x mindset at all. Well, unless the 1 in front is the big pie plate then you're talking.
And this. And what others have said. I got rid of my 1x9 and went back to a triple because of endurance events. You simply don't get enough gear range for the variety of terrain you'll see, especially if you venture out of NJ.

If you must go 1x, go bigger up front, not smaller. 32 at the minimum, 33/34 would probably be better. On the longer courses I think being able to haul ass on the flats/fireroads/extended downhills makes up for some of the small short steeps you might not have a low enough gear for.

stb222
01-15-2012, 03:33 PM
I don't like 1x9/10 because you don't get the full range of top end. This applies for both MTB and CX bike. I don't buy into the 1x mindset at all. Well, unless the 1 in front is the big pie plate then you're talking.

So why is it that most downhill bikes run a 36 x 11 as the top gear? These guys are going far faster than any of us. How often are you really using the big ring, 11, 12, 13, 14? Because if you are using them the majority of the time, you can do without them with a higher cadenace.

Also, did you fall out of contention in a cross race this year for a mis shift that resulted in a broken chain? less gears equals less chance of a mechanical happening because of those reasons.

It is the same appeal as ss, for simplicity and to a lesser degree weight. There is so much overlap in the gear ratio that you don't loose that much, hence the recent shift from 3 x 9 to 2 x 10. Yeah, you loose some top end, but how often are you really using them?

ChrisRU
01-15-2012, 03:45 PM
So why is it that most downhill bikes run a 36 x 11 as the top gear? These guys are going far faster than any of us. How often are you really using the big ring, 11, 12, 13, 14? Because if you are using them the majority of the time, you can do without them with a higher cadenace.

Also, did you fall out of contention in a cross race this year for a mis shift that resulted in a broken chain? less gears equals less chance of a mechanical happening because of those reasons.

It is the same appeal as ss, for simplicity and to a lesser degree weight. There is so much overlap in the gear ratio that you don't loose that much, hence the recent shift from 3 x 9 to 2 x 10. Yeah, you loose some top end, but how often are you really using them?
While most of what you said makes sounds great in theory, in practice the extra gears are the right call for most people. Your body goes through some crazy stuff during 50 mile/6 hour races, and sometimes its just as simple as being on the verge of death and needing to spin out for a while, or a burst of energy where mashing a 44x11 just feels right.

jimvreeland
01-15-2012, 04:06 PM
I'm a 1x fan. And a Shimano fan. Agree with Jeremy, E13 is the way to go, seat-tube mounted one, lord knows how many MRPs I've cracked or bent along the way. Also agree about the higher end instead of the lower end. I run a single 38 up front with and 11-36 in the back. Even riding downhill on the road it's impossible to spin out a 38x11. If you're in the mindset that you a 44t on a 29er, you're smoking crack, and we need to ride, I'd love to see someone push that combo. The gear inches are about the same as spinning out a 56x11 on a road bike. Even Fabien Cancellara only runs a 55T.

-Jim.

gtluke
01-15-2012, 04:24 PM
how about those ratcheting shimano rear derailures jim? they out yet? they work good enough to not need any retention on the front?

jimvreeland
01-15-2012, 04:26 PM
They're out. You still need a guide up front. The tension of that Shimano cage is about the same as a stock Sram rear derailleur. FYI.

-Jim.

jShort
01-15-2012, 04:34 PM
They're out.

-Jim.

In xt? Or only xtr?

bonefishjake
01-15-2012, 04:40 PM
So why is it that most downhill bikes run a 36 x 11 as the top gear? ?

when was the last time you saw those guys pedaling UP HILL? oh. right. it's DH. never mind.

i've been running 1x9 for two years now on my niner. i did it for weight reasons. at this point i see zero reason to do it. either go two by x or SS.

stb222
01-15-2012, 04:43 PM
when was the last time you saw those guys pedaling UP HILL? oh. right. it's DH. never mind.

i've been running 1x9 for two years now on my niner. i did it for weight reasons. at this point i see zero reason to do it. either go two by x or SS.

No one was questioning the low end, peps were saying were saying not enough top end.

743power
01-15-2012, 04:44 PM
Xtr only for now. . .

Kevin- most of the fast pro dh guys are running 38-40 front and there isn't a whole heck of a lot of places to pedal on those courses.

I did the 1x thing for a year or so but missed both top and low end. The 39/26 double cranks from SRAM or 38/26 from shimano are the perfect setup for xc or enduro racing around here.

Fogerson
01-15-2012, 05:23 PM
i've been running 1x9 for two years now on my niner. i did it for weight reasons. at this point i see zero reason to do it. either go two by x or SS.

I did it because I got too fat and out of shape to SS, nor could get out enough to get in shape to SS. When I could ride, I didn't want to hurt more than I had to. When I had gears before my "SS period", 99% of the time I was on the middle ring, so I figured why bother?

I don't do endurance stuff and I never ride anywhere one couldn't reasonable single speed, so 1x it just makes sense for *me*. Hell, I only use 4 or 5 cogs on the rear cassette, even in my well into clydesdale current weight.

When I get to the West coast that could change, may find I need more of a gearing mix whilst running around the Cascades, but even then the majority of what I'll ride won't require more than a 1x.

rlb
01-15-2012, 05:36 PM
I went 1x9 a while ago and I'm all for it. I'm currently geared 32x11-24 and at first I was wishing for more low end but in reality I hardly ever need it. The only climb that still makes me cry is the orange trail to get into Deer Park. I do have a 30t Homebrewed ring on the way to go on a new set of X9 cranks and I'll still set it up when it comes in, but for places like MDR or CR I've come to the conclusion I don't need it. Granted my MTB rides never really surpass the 20mi range, but 32-34 is a pretty punchy gear to begin with. I never really found the small ring rock-crawler ratios usable because the balance between front wheel off the ground and rear wheel losing traction requires such precise weight shifting that it's impossible to get right every time.

Top end isn't something I'm concerned with so that might skew my observations. I say try it out on the cheap (replace the big ring with a bash, use an n-gear jump stop, and shorten the chain as much as you can) and see what your legs have to say about it.

Fogerson
01-15-2012, 05:39 PM
Top end isn't something I'm concerned with so that might skew my observations. I say try it out on the cheap (replace the big ring with a bash, use an n-gear jump stop, and shorten the chain as much as you can) and see what your legs have to say about it.

Or crank the high/low stops on the FD to where it stays on the middle ring and try it (that way, you're not tempted to shift).

MikeP
01-15-2012, 05:48 PM
we can all debate on what we like or what we think is stupid but it's really pointless. People say 1x10 you lose too much but what about SS? It's all personal preference and riding style. I think the original question was what parts you're running if you're running 1x10.

Norm
01-15-2012, 05:54 PM
So why is it that most downhill bikes run a 36 x 11 as the top gear? These guys are going far faster than any of us. How often are you really using the big ring, 11, 12, 13, 14? Because if you are using them the majority of the time, you can do without them with a higher cadenace.

Also, did you fall out of contention in a cross race this year for a mis shift that resulted in a broken chain? less gears equals less chance of a mechanical happening because of those reasons.

It is the same appeal as ss, for simplicity and to a lesser degree weight. There is so much overlap in the gear ratio that you don't loose that much, hence the recent shift from 3 x 9 to 2 x 10. Yeah, you loose some top end, but how often are you really using them?

I don't follow DH but my guess is that the DH guys are spinning short and fast, not drilling power over FTP for any length of time. The go fast because of the gravity, not because of the gear choice.

Yes I was shifting back up to the big pie plate after it fell off onto the middle. I can't really run a 1x10 with a 47 up front, or whatever it is. That just seems silly.

Personally I raced about 98% of my cross miles in my big ring. The MTB is much less. But it's got to be in the 50% realm. You can't use the "spinning out" argument because for many of us, race cadence is like 75 on the MTB. You can't use the argument that I should choose 1x9 for simplicity and cover my gear ratio problem by changing my self-selected cadence from 75 to 95. It's just not that easy.

goldsbar
01-15-2012, 08:02 PM
I think there's a difference between being in the big ring a lot and using the big ring to the max. When I had a triple I would go into the big ring on every little descent because it felt like the thing to do on a triple. That's much different than being in the bigx11. A 32x11 will get you to 20 mph with a fast cadance. I'm going to have to start riding with you guys because most people I know are in full DH position when they're going 20 mph on a XC bike on any sort of real trail. I get the feel thing, though - it feels nice to crank up a short incline in the big ring even if the gear inches are the same.

pooriggy
01-15-2012, 09:24 PM
Thanks for feedback peeps, its much appreciated.

Falco did point out the fact that I spin with a high cadence on my mtb. This is true, I find myself in my 22 crank quite a bit going up through technical features. I am more comfortable spinning, the times I can't make a rock-up is because I am in too big of a gear for me.(I stall out) I cut my cycling teeth on a road bike and high cadence is where I am more comfortable.

I would however like to try the 32 crank with 11-36 cassette. Currently I am running 2x9. My crank is a 22x32 and my cassette is 11-34. I could leave the crank and get 10spd shifters and replace the cassette and de-hanger. If I feel I don't need the 22 crank then I could go about eliminating it and the left shifter.

UtahJoe
01-15-2012, 09:37 PM
Iggy, you rode my 2x10 set up on my epic....did you like that?

I prefer the 2x10. While 95% of the time im using my 39ring, there are times when having the 26 ring comes in very handy. As RU mentioned, sometimes its just nice to have when you need it. 3rd lap at jungle this year was one that I remember. Plus days like today when I want to climb the big rock wall at split rock....39-36 is too tall for me to make that anyway.

I think a 30T single in the front would be too small, even if you like to spin. If you do go that route iggy, i would suggest 34-36.

I have talked to many people who don't think that you can go 2-1 with a 2x10 set up and that you must shift down to the small ring to use first gear. totally not the case, crosses over just fine.

Norm
01-15-2012, 09:56 PM
I think there's a difference between being in the big ring a lot and using the big ring to the max. When I had a triple I would go into the big ring on every little descent because it felt like the thing to do on a triple. That's much different than being in the bigx11. A 32x11 will get you to 20 mph with a fast cadance. I'm going to have to start riding with you guys because most people I know are in full DH position when they're going 20 mph on a XC bike on any sort of real trail. I get the feel thing, though - it feels nice to crank up a short incline in the big ring even if the gear inches are the same.

I'm of the opinion the you actually transfer more power with the big ring than the middle even with the same gear ratio. I may have read an article with the science to support this but I may also be tired and dreaming it.